Kenny Miller

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Liviforever

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Liviforever on Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:00 pm

Word is Kenny Miller has left the building. Shocked
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:19 pm

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Liviforever

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Liviforever on Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:27 pm

Unexpected but can't say i'm at all bothered, kinda relieved tbh, it was a problem for us on the pitch and a worry for the season ahead, because none of us truly thought he'd put the team before his ego and drop himself.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Bertie Bassett on Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:33 pm

And Daily Record version is a combination of both stories

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/kenny-miller-axed-livingston-club-13107478

Gary Holt & Gavin Skelton already linked with the job

Durnford

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Durnford on Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Kind of relieved if true to be honest.

Playing he cant see the problems with the defence line up not starting with either Lamie or Lithgow. We looked a lot better when Lamie came on yesterday and frankly I though that Jacobs was better at the role than Kenny Miller.

Not much of a loss really - shame we cant get Hartson back though
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orco

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by orco on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:59 am

It's never dull at Almondvale. I'm almost at the stage where I'm proud to still be supporting my joke team through thick and thin. Fans of other clubs have no idea how hard it's been here for years. A crisis at Celtic is them losing a last minute goal to Livi. Mon the Livi - ya daft as a brush club.
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Liviforever

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Liviforever on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:17 am

His probationary period ended on the 31st of this month so we would've had to pay a large compensation after that, so at least the club acted swiftly on that score and had the good sense of putting the probation into his contract.

Looks like as well as on the pitch side of things, it wasn't working out off the pitch either. we were counting on Martindale being able to have some clout in being able to persuade KM when he was getting in the way playing wise but that may have become an issue because KM wasn't seeing it that way. The board/Martindale etc must've seen the same as us fans when watching games, I commented on this right after our first Betfred cup game and it was still the case into our last game against Motherwell there.

Whatever the reasons i'm more relieved than shocked it has happened, I was really pissed off after our defeat against Motherwell* and I couldn't really see it getting any better once Hardie was back.

*Not so much about the defeat, but the striker situation and KM continuing to play himself as one of our starting strikers but dropping deep and leaving LM isolated. That and a couple of other things were niggling at me and I could only see it getting worse.
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Liviforever

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Liviforever on Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:26 am

Bertie Bassett wrote:Yeah; you have identified exactly why IMO player manager does not work. I’ve only seen the Annan game but you describe Miller’s involvement perfectly.

The simple solution is for him to be the manager & keep himself as a potential sub. However, as I understand it he won’t do that. So the next option is for him to play but while he is on the pitch he is just another player & he needs to delegate the managerial role to DM. If he then gets subbed off he can take over the managerial reigns. However, I suspect he won’t do that either.

Which brings the third option, the board admit that it’s a mistake & punt him before any serious damage is done...but we all know that won’t happen.

So let’s hope he/they prove us wrong & quickly.

Third option it was then Bertie, we didn't think it would happen, certainly not this early but very shrewd of the club to have a probationary period to see if the player/manager thing would work.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:22 am

Yes, unusual in football but standard in other employment areas.

I said from before he was appointed that player/manager doesn’t work & he demonstrated that perfectly by trying to manage on the pitch. Maybe he thought he was leading by example but he ought to have become a player once he crossed the white line & trust the guys in the dugout to spot & rectify anything not working properly on the pitch.

Your first comments on what he was doing made me look for it when I went to the Annan & Berwick games & it was obvious. It was probably less noticeable at Celtic when we were defending most of the time but I noticed our play improved after he subbed himself.

Killie game & it was obvious again & that he was putting himself before the team...you thought I was being harsh but I stand by it. He was out of position most of the time.

Durnford

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Durnford on Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:33 am

To be honest the statement put out by the club does seem the most plausible
1. The club asked Kenny to move to a full time management role as they didn't see the player manager thing as really working
2. Kenny wants to carry on playing hence the club and KM decide to part amicably (i.e. no compensation).

To be honest when Burchill was player manager it didn't really work and he only Brought himself on occasionally. Think Lambert appeared on the pitch a few times for us but refused to play against Celtic (in the year we flopped out of the SPL). Think Alan Kernighan (sp) also appeared as did Robbo but neither were the manager.

A manager needs to manager; not run around the field with his mates.
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orco

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by orco on Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:05 pm

I think the fact that he left himself on for the full 90 minutes says a lot too. He was blowing out of his backside for the last 20 minutes of the Killie game yet stayed on. He wanted his cake and to eat it too. It was obvious to everyone watching the games that he wasn't playing as a striker which is presumably why the Board took the gamble of giving him the job. Whether he likes it or not he hasn't the stamina to play the way he once did. Perhaps he knows this and saw playing a midfield role as one way to keep playing at SPL level and being the gaffer he could do that. It'll be interesting to see where he goes from here.
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Liviforever

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Liviforever on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:39 pm

It actually heartens you that the club have been sensible with the probationary deal and acted swiftly, they were only after a manager, Miller wanted to play too, they gave him a chance but spotted it not working and got it sorted. They even gave him the chance to just manage but he refused to believe he wasn't good enough to play so we've parted company.


His refusal to accept it showed he would've picked himself first every time over everyone, including Hardie, so what Bertie said earlier could have happened and we could quite possibly have lost Hardie with him going back to Sevco early.


Now who will we get now, i'd still take Duffy, he'll get called a dinosaur but so what, all I want is for someone to be good at man management and continue where Hoppy left off, I think Duffy would do that.

Durnford

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Durnford on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:26 pm

Liviforever wrote:It actually heartens you that the club have been sensible with the probationary deal and acted swiftly, they were only after a manager, Miller wanted to play too, they gave him a chance but spotted it not working and got it sorted. They even gave him the chance to just manage but he refused to believe he wasn't good enough to play so we've parted company.


His refusal to accept it showed he would've picked himself first every time over everyone, including Hardie, so what Bertie said earlier could have happened and we could quite possibly have lost Hardie with him going back to Sevco early.


Now who will we get now, i'd still take Duffy, he'll get called a dinosaur but so what, all I want is for someone to be good at man management and continue where Hoppy left off, I think Duffy would do that.

Dinosaurs were apparently the second most successful land animals on planet earth (245 million years). Not bad in the scheme of things. Of course having an allosaurus running up and down the touchline might not the the best strategy for packing the crowds in although its propensity for biting the heads off the opposition management might be something we can use.

Given the choice I might lean for someone like Holt but wouldn't turn my nose up at Duffy. I know Morton fans used to moan about him not really picking the best team but we went through the whole of last season with players playing out of position, due to the size of the squad, and to be honest I cant think of one game this season where everyone's played in their natural position. Also worried about prospects like McMillan and Crane are not getting a fair shot.

Get a manager in who knows how to manage and lets take it from there.
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Liviforever

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Liviforever on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:56 pm

According to Callum Carson Holt may not jump at the chance after being passed up last time for Miller. Bit silly having that attitude, with the football management merry go round you're going to be left with very few choices if you take offence at not being appointed at every club that has a managerial vacancy and be left with very few places to manage.

How mental would it be if Hoppy decided to come back though, reckon it would even increase our crowds for our next couple of home games, place would be buzzing again. Hello Hoppy, so you didn't find a club mate, and things didn't work out with our new manager, how'd ye fancy getting the old band back together for another season eh? Nah couldn't happen...………………...
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:44 pm

orco wrote:I think the fact that he left himself on for the full 90 minutes says a lot too. He was blowing out of his backside for the last 20 minutes of the Killie game yet stayed on. He wanted his cake and to eat it too. It was obvious to everyone watching the games that he wasn't playing as a striker which is presumably why the Board took the gamble of giving him the job. Whether he likes it or not he hasn't the stamina to play the way he once did. Perhaps he knows this and saw playing a midfield role as one way to keep playing at SPL level and being the gaffer he could do that. It'll be interesting to see where he goes from here.

He was gubbed in the 1st half hour against Killie; walking slowly back from offside positions forcing us to stay in our own half when a ball over the top would have had them in trouble. He was also holding his side quite regularly during that time, like he had a stitch.

Radio this afternoon suggested St Midden are trying to get him in as a player... if he signs who would bet against him scoring on Saturday?

Troy

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Troy on Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:56 pm

Having spent a good part of my working day perusing through all the comments on socail media concerning this my brain feels fried.So many opinions and comments have somehow left me none the wiser.My own thoughts on this are that there are a good many Livi supporters have breathed a sigh of releife that the board have taken this decision.I like many others was willing to give Kenny Miller a chance and the benefit of the doubt but it was becoming obvious that trying to manage on the pitch was just not working for him.Indeed the rhetoric that was emminating from the home stand especially aroud me was bordering on the paranioa on Saturday.Facts are that the board got it wrong and John Ward has said so on STV tonight.Hes held his hands up and i for one give him great credit for that.Yes i sincerely hope that wether its the return of the prodigal son or someone else to numerous to mention that we as supporters give them the full backing that theyl expect.Shame we are in the media spotlight again for the wrong reasons but i await future developments with trepidation and baited breath.Rant over.
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orco

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by orco on Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:35 pm

As long as it's not John Hughes!
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:00 pm

Absolutely right Orco!!!
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Afro

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Afro on Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:06 pm

KM wasn't my first choice for the gig during the summer, and not even in my top 10, but I found the unwarranted criticism of him from some sections of the support from the word go just bizarre. I don't think we've played poorly this season yet, even taking the tanking from Celtic for the first hour of the match into account, and to an extent, I don't think KM himself was as awful as made out. He definitely lacked the nous to bring himself off when it mattered, though, and the one time he did he did have the nous to switch to a 4-4-2 and get us right back in the game at Parkhead. Can see why the board asked him to move to the manager role full-time, as long-term I don't think the current setup was sustainable. He's refused, and they've parted ways. Happens all the time in other businesses so it's amusing to see the hysterical outcry over this move from certain quarters (a certain Tam McManus suffering a heads gone is the best one).

Not ideal timing given the enormity of Saturday's game against a side that will more than likely be scrapping with us down the bottom of the league, but I'm glad the choice was made now and not in December when we were marooned at the bottom of the league.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:41 pm

Another Scotsman article from a journo that seems to want a job as Kenny’s PR man.
He hasn’t got a clue though...suggests our board unveiled KM as our 1st player/manager...presumably he hasn’t heard of Lambert or Burchill.

And he suggests there have been no negative comments about him...clearly doesn’t come on to these message boards.

Also seems to think he was fully justified in picking himself.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/alan-pattullo-barely-time-to-make-a-fair-assessment-of-kenny-miller-1-4787173

Also...the criticism wasn’t bizarre, he wasn’t doing the job right & any interview suggested he wasn’t about to change. I would happily have supported him if he showed any sign of learning but he didn’t. Everything revolved around him but it should have been club first, not Miller first.

As for the results record...
We beat Airdrie 2-1 away, we had been 2 up but according to reports I read were hanging on at the end. We failed to score against Hamilton away - a team we are allegedly targeting as one we could finish above to stay up. We beat Annan 1-0 and had some narrow escapes near the end. We beat Berwick 2-0 but it wasn’t as comfortable as it should have been. Lost at Celtic, understandably but the team noticeably improved after he subbed himself. Got the 0-0 against Killie but he was regularly the weakest link, frequently wandering slowly back from offside prevent us counter attacking, looked in pain & shattered in the 1st half hour & regularly too busy directing players on the pitch rather than playing his own position. Finally lost at home to a Motherwell side that we again should be hoping to target & who had just lost to Hamilton.

So although the results don’t look that bad on paper, the wins were games we were expected to win & would have won more comfortably last season & the year before (compare Airdrie results from that season).
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Liviforever

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Liviforever on Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:57 am

I wouldn't bother what arseholes on sportsound or journalists without a clue say/write Bertie, they were talking bollocks about us even before Miller left, they all circle the wagons saying how great he was as a player but we know otherwise and I really don't give a monkeys if they think we're wrong getting rid of him. It will be all the better when we prove them all wrong and get it right up them. They had us going down anyway, but with wee condescending phrases like hard working and honest players etc etc, well stick that false praise up their jacksies, and lets ram it right down their throats and stay up.

This has given us a better chance of doing so anyway that's for sure.
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orco

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by orco on Tue Aug 21, 2018 2:41 am

So many inaccuracies from someone who probably hasn't seen Kenny Miller play in a Livi shirt.
It is summed up for me in the bizarre statement that those black pellets were getting in the ears and up the noses of Motherwell players. Clever pellets that can distinguish between Livi and the opposition will be a huge asset in home games this season. Another masterstroke by the Board. geek
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Bertie Bassett on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:48 am

Not bothered by what they say or write LF, just sharing what I found. I also found that the Record now has a video chat about Scottish Football & they spent about 5 our 10 mins discussing the situation with absolutely no clue about it & just regurgitating the same garbage or saying “Ehhh, ehhh, ehhh” between comments.

The one thing that does bother me is the disparity between the club statement on the OCS & what John Ward was saying on TV. The former clearly states that the board wanted KM to take on the manager’s role but KM didn’t want to stop playing. However on TV JW said the board did not ask him to give up playing. Both can’t be true, so either the official statement is incorrect or JW is.

Good spot on the black pellets Orco, presumably though it would only have been Motherwell players that would have been going face first into the pitch from the robust, physical challenges from all the big bruisers in our team, you know, guys like Robbo, Pitts, Cadden, Kaja, Jacobs, Lawless & Byrne.

Durnford

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Durnford on Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:41 am

I've read plenty of anti-Livi stuff over the years but rarely has one been so one-sided and agenda ridden as the piece in the Scotsman.

The quote Tam McManarse as if what he's saying is gospel even though it actually contradicts the post put out by Miller's own agent on instagram:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmrn3pSg4ub/?hl=en&taken-by=the_baldwinners

Still lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story eh?

Durnford

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Re: Kenny Miller

Post by Durnford on Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:44 am

orco wrote:So many inaccuracies from someone who probably hasn't seen Kenny Miller play in a Livi shirt.
It is summed up for me in the bizarre statement that those black pellets were getting in the ears and up the noses of Motherwell players. Clever pellets that can distinguish between Livi and the opposition will be a huge asset in home games this season. Another masterstroke by the Board. geek

If Sammon hadn't spent so much time diving over trying to win a free kick etc then maybe they wouldn't have had the chance.

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