Celtic v Livi

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Liviforever

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:04 pm

Better highlights here from RogerThatProductions. https://vimeo.com/283224203
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Bertie Bassett on Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:44 pm

You are absolutely correct those highlights knock spots off what I saw on Sportscene. They show that we can actually play a bit.

Great wee assist by Hammy on the goal. Great move slightly earlier (as I previously stated) that led to Hammy headering just off target.

Durnford

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Durnford on Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:55 pm

So it was Stephen Saunders who ducked out of the way for their first goal. Seemed a bit lightweight against Berwick yet he gets the nod ahead of Lithgow?
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Bertie Bassett on Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:01 pm

Not sure what you are seeing... Halkett tried to get his head on it but it’s too high & Rogic is head & shoulders above Robbo; no one ducked out of it that I can see.

I agree Lithgow should be in ahead of Saunders but can’t see how you can blame Saunders for the 1st goal... can’t see how you can blame anyone really, it was a great cross & header.

Durnford

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Durnford on Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:16 am

Bertie Bassett wrote:Not sure what you are seeing... Halkett tried to get his head on it but it’s too high & Rogic is head & shoulders above Robbo; no one ducked out of it that I can see.

I agree Lithgow should be in ahead of Saunders but can’t see how you can blame Saunders for the 1st goal... can’t see how you can blame anyone really, it was a great cross & header.

Saunders is the guy with the number five on his shirt; at first I thought it was Pittman from the Celtic TV angle but these ones are far clearer.

Basically even if Robinson had stopped dead, rather than continuing to run in, he would have blocked Rogic's run.

THe second goal was a bit of a lesson; we've contested corners like that all last season and rarely got caught out; the way Celtic broke after the ball was cleared it was obvious they were well prepared and ready for it. A number of our guys appeared to be jogging back expecting thre ball to be put out for a throw in etc. like happened 100+ times last season.

This season we've obviously got to be a lot more prepared for this sort of thing. If Celtic have sussed it out I bet Killie will be ready.
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Liviforever

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:06 am

Yeah their break up the pitch from our corner was well worked, we follow their player back but he heads it on to their players breaking up the pitch and it catches us out and from then on we're struggling to get back with only one player covering. I doubt many teams will have the confidence to break like that knowing they're good enough to commit everyone forward and not lose the ball again and get caught out themselves.

It's actually number 5 Saunders that plays Robinson in for our goal, you can see it more clearly on the bbc website highlights, Hamilton is number 30 and standing just to the side of him.

Their first goal looks a bit too easy but it was a perfect cross just a couple of inches too high for Halkett to get his head to, and Rogic also timed his run perfectly, bit unfortunate it was Robinson covering his run though, height wise he had no chance.

The commentary of the bbc highlights is as biased as their footage, the penalty was described as Gallagher bundling him over and Robinson's goal was described as the ball breaking to him. It was a comfortable win for Celtic but still very dismissive of anything Livi did. In fact Steven Thompson has risen in my estimations, both in our play offs and in his post match comments on this game, he's been very fair when talking about us.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Bertie Bassett on Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:41 am

Durnford wrote:
Bertie Bassett wrote:Not sure what you are seeing... Halkett tried to get his head on it but it’s too high & Rogic is head & shoulders above Robbo; no one ducked out of it that I can see.

I agree Lithgow should be in ahead of Saunders but can’t see how you can blame Saunders for the 1st goal... can’t see how you can blame anyone really, it was a great cross & header.

Saunders is the guy with the number five on his shirt; at first I thought it was Pittman from the Celtic TV angle but these ones are far clearer.

Basically even if Robinson had stopped dead, rather than continuing to run in, he would have blocked Rogic's run.

THe second goal was a bit of a lesson; we've contested corners like that all last season and rarely got caught out; the way Celtic broke after the ball was cleared it was obvious they were well prepared and ready for it. A number of our guys appeared to be jogging back expecting thre ball to be put out for a throw in etc. like happened 100+ times last season.

This season we've obviously got to be a lot more prepared for this sort of thing. If Celtic have sussed it out I bet Killie will be ready.

Yeah I know who Saunders is & he is picking someone up to the left of the pen spot as the camera looks at it... so I don’t see how he ducked out of anything. Robinson is closer to our goal and has his back to Rogic who arrives in “Billy Stark ghosting in” fashion - timing his run perfectly; so don’t see how Robbo could have done anything. If he had stopped dead Rogic would have seen that & adjusted accordingly. I think our guys appeared to be jogging back because
A. they were not as fast as the Celtic players breaking
B. they started from the disadvantage of having to turn & try to catch up


Good shout on the assist LF, had another look on RTP & can see Hammy clearly watching Saunders lay it off to Robbo. Yeah, Thompson is being much more Livi-friendly than the others.

Durnford

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Durnford on Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:22 am

What I mean by "ducking":



With the excerpt from Celtic TV:

https://streamable.com/h05s7

Not sure why he bent double there; seemed almost as if he expected to be clattered.

As for Robinson staying where he was; yes Rogic could have adjusted his run but it would have impeded him and meant that he wouldn't have has such a perfect run in.

On the other hand with Lithgow on the pitch he would probably have been standing right in front of the guy, almost hanging on to him, so the guy falls to the floor and the result is ... Penalty! (remember where we are).

I think we all knew what the upshot was going to be at the end of the day; however a two goal deficit, after what many of the TV pundits were predicting to be a rugby score, is no disgrace and, provided we can learn from it, should be a stern footing for the rest od the season. Remember we started last season with (I think) four defeats to premiership opposition (actually I think one of those was Sunderland but WTF) but it set us up for a fantastic year.
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Liviforever

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:28 pm

Someone on P&B posted that pic trying to take the piss out of us but tbh I don't think Saunders could do anything. Robinson is running along with Rodic and Saunders is a fair bit away in front of them, can't really see anything wrong in live play, but looks like he's trying to stick his arse out as he runs in to roll Rodic out of the way.

Halkett is the only player that could really stop the goal but the ball is just inches over his head. It isn't as if Saunders can challenge for the ball and is ducking out the way of it. Or if as Bertie says, Robinson could've just stopped and blocked Rodic's run. Ref would prob have just given Celtic a penalty though, which would've ended in the same result.

Looks annoyingly too easy a goal for them but everything in their movement was perfect to make it so, we can freeze frame and analyse where players could move 'ex players on MoTD and Sportscene style' but I wouldn't really lay blame on anyone. It's just one we have to take on the chin and try and learn some lessons for the next time. Although with Celtic's pool of players to choose from a whole lot of new lessons could be given to us in the next game against them.

Durnford

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Durnford on Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:28 pm

Liviforever wrote:Someone on P&B posted that pic trying to take the piss out of us but tbh I don't think Saunders could do anything. Robinson is running along with Rodic and Saunders is a fair bit away in front of them, can't really see anything wrong in live play, but looks like he's trying to stick his arse out as he runs in to roll Rodic out of the way.

Halkett is the only player that could really stop the goal but the ball is just inches over his head. It isn't as if Saunders can challenge for the ball and is ducking out the way of it. Or if as Bertie says, Robinson could've just stopped and blocked Rodic's run. Ref would prob have just given Celtic a penalty though, which would've ended in the same result.

Looks annoyingly too easy a goal for them but everything in their movement was perfect to make it so, we can freeze frame and analyse where players could move 'ex players on MoTD and Sportscene style' but I wouldn't really lay blame on anyone. It's just one we have to take on the chin and try and learn some lessons for the next time. Although with Celtic's pool of players to choose from a whole lot of new lessons could be given to us in the next game against them.

Am reminder of Partick's First - sorry ONLY goal against us in the playoffs; frustratingly just inches out of reach for Lithgow.

Lets be honest; the referee was going to give Celtic a penalty at some stage anyway and I'm not saying that anyone was to blame for the goal although we could have done better by not letting their "big name" signing having a free run on goal. Actually looking at it again (and it is form quite a distance but it really looks like Rogic runs in and is pushing Robinson, as he's almost twice his size maybe his motion was inevitable but if it had happened the other way around, i.e. one of our guys ran in pushing their player, wouldn't it have been a potential penalty. At yet Gallagher gives away a penalty for what looks like a perfectly reasonable shoulder charge; they were both running in the direction of the ball and its not as if Gallagher cut across the celtic player's path - ridiculous decision by the official.

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Liviforever

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Liviforever on Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:44 pm

Grasping at straws but take away Celtic's soft penalty and give us a more blatant pen for the clambering over Halkett as he's being held at a Livi corner and we could've got a draw here, yeah all conjecture as circumstances would've turned out differently and no guarantee it would play out like that but shows how fine the margins are in games, even against a Celtic team that were clearly a lot better than us.

Saunders was actually being fouled too when he played Robinson in, the Celtic player was all over him holding on to stop Saunders moving, i'd put money on the ref awarding Celtic a pen if it had been the other way around.

Miller not heading the ball off the line and Griffiths hitting the ball a bit harder when he rounded Kelly and it could've just as easily been 5-0 too though so all in all we did ok keeping it to 2 goals of a gap.

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Durnford on Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:32 pm

Yep; actually before the kick off I was hoping the scoreline wouldn't be worse than 4-nil and after the first goal went in I felt the nightmare was going to come true.

For a team that rarely saw a crowd of more than 2k last season it must have been a real culture shock playing in front of almost 59,000 (particularly bearing in mind the previous week cant have been much more than about 600?) and they could easily have fallen to pieces; it says a lot for the guys that they didn't - the Miller twins aside very few of that team on Saturday will have played in front of a crowd of more than a couple of thousand.
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Bertie Bassett

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Re: Celtic v Livi

Post by Bertie Bassett on Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:56 pm

Ahh... penny drops... the guy I thought was Saunders in the videos is actually Byrne (6 looks like 5 when I don’t have my short distance specs on)....because I thought Byrne was Saunders I didn’t even look at the real Saunders. It is a really odd thing for him to do, absolutely no reason to duck. Maybe he saw a ghost like the one that caused Mick McCarthy to flinch for no apparent reason a couple of years back.

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