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orco
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    CoronaVirus and Season 2019/20

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    Durnford


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    Post by Durnford Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:35 pm

    Likewise Bertie - stay safe.

    With so little good news currently available I thought I would circulate something that that might help cheer up those of us of a certain age that experience the uncharacteristic call of nature late at night or early in the morning.

    Scientist have managed to develop a white wine that settles and improves bladder control. They have done this by combining the French Pinot gris and the Portuguese Moreto grape.

    The wine will be know by the name Pinot More.


    I'm sorry; I'll get my hat
    Liviforever
    Liviforever


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    Post by Liviforever Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:06 pm

    Yeah strange seeing Livi being held up as a well run club, and one that is being honourable with staff and players being paid in full too. Some clubs (Hearts) couldn't jump on the Govt Covid-19 wages offer fast enough, telling all their staff to take a 50% wage cut, or be put on furlough and claim off the Govt.

    Even Spurs have done this to their staff, whilst still paying their players full wages, now that takes the proverbial piss, guys making north of 75K a week being paid and ordinary workers getting stiffed. Worth noting their owner has more than 4 billion in his bank, and the chairman gets 7 million a year too. If there was any morals down there the players and chairman would offer to take a wage cut to make sure the staff were getting full wages.

    Anyway, rant over, as our own chairman said, we wont be able to sustain this indefinitely, at some point we'll have to put the players on furlough ourselves, to save the club, and they'll drop down to being paid 80% of their wage, but until then, it's good to see us having some moral fibre and paying everyone for as long as possible.
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    Troy


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    Post by Troy Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:06 pm

    So good to hear that my fellow posters and indeed Livi fans in general are bearing up at this extraordinery time.Its also heartening to see so many doing their bit to helping the club at this particular time of uncertainty.Until im told otherwise im back at work on Monday having spent the last week at home.My company delivers electrical components to various outlets and especially the NHS to enable vital machines ,respirators etc are built to enable the continued care and attention these essential services require.Think in general most people are doing their preverbial best to follow the guidlines weve been given,although granted there are a few who just dont get the message.Like most ive no idea when any sense of normality will resume in this crisis but hopefully we will be ready when it does.It will take time but we will beat this.Till then ,take care and stay safe my fellow Lions.LOL.T.
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    Troy


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    Post by Troy Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:06 pm

    So good to hear that my fellow posters and indeed Livi fans in general are bearing up at this extraordinery time.Its also heartening to see so many doing their bit to helping the club at this particular time of uncertainty.Until im told otherwise im back at work on Monday having spent the last week at home.My company delivers electrical components to various outlets and especially the NHS to enable vital machines ,respirators etc are built to enable the continued care and attention these essential services require.Think in general most people are doing their preverbial best to follow the guidlines weve been given,although granted there are a few who just dont get the message.Like most ive no idea when any sense of normality will resume in this crisis but hopefully we will be ready when it does.It will take time but we will beat this.Till then ,take care and stay safe my fellow Lions.LOL.T.
    Liviforever
    Liviforever


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    Post by Liviforever Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:22 pm

    Uefa are targeting July-Aug for clubs finishing their leagues, sounds reasonable. There would have to be rules set in place to stop clubs bringing in new players before the league is finished though, and put a hold on the transfer window opening up. Hardly holding up sporting integrity if the likes of Hearts could change their team to avoid relegation, esp after them halving staff and players wages saying they had no money to pay them.

    It would at least give us something tangible to work to, so clubs could gear themselves up to resume play, and get the players prepared. Just now it feels like everyone is in a state of suspended animation, waiting to brought to life again and told what we're doing.
    orco
    orco


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    Post by orco Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:54 am

    Just checking in to confirm I'm still above ground. With so much happening here and around the world, football has gone way down my list of priorities. Very early days I'd say and already it feels like normality is still far off. We will hopefully all appreciate the important things in life when/if we get through this crisis.
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    Troy


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    Post by Troy Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:26 am

    So good to hear that both you Orco and J are bearing up during these terrible times.FWIW your dead right.As much as we all miss our football there are more pressing issues to be dealt with here i feel.Getting the country of its knees would be a good place to start with.Its been diffcuilt i know for everyone but i agree that it is early days and we still have troubled waters ahead to be crossed.Personally ive now been put on Furlough leave from my work as i guess many others have.Im lucky in that i still have a job to go back to at the earliest that im allowed to ,but i realise some others arent so fortunate.All we can ask is that people continue their lives as best as they can and for the majority to keep observing the guidelines weve been given and hopefully we will see a light at the end of this long tunnel we are in.Anyway i sincerely hope the rest of you are coping at this dreadfull time,and il see you all on the other side of this.Lol T.
    Auld Nick
    Auld Nick


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    Post by Auld Nick Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:46 am

    Yeah, good to see you regulars all still hanging in there. And while I agree that there are more important things in life than football - or any sport for that matter - as Troy says, getting the country back on its feet will be paramount, but part of that will be to get the sport & other entertainment industries operating again because we (The regular workers of this world) will need it to help lift our spirits.

    We are only at the start of the 3rd week of lockdown but it feels like much longer, I have aged a year in the last few days - literally, Sunday was my birthday & I forgot to celebrate the Petrofac cup win!

    So stay healthy everyone. Mon the Livi!
    Liviforever
    Liviforever


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    Post by Liviforever Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:59 pm

    My birthday this month too, at an age I don't much bother with it anyway, but my family do, and i'll miss not seeing my daughter dropping in to celebrate it with me. Worry with how my mum and mum in law both cope with this isolation too, both in their late 80's and cut off from their social circles.

    When this is all over there'll be some amount of partying going on, to release all that lockdown stress we're all under. Would imagine footballing crowds will be up a good bit too, with everyone missing the footie, which will be a much needed boost to the clubs.
    Liviforever
    Liviforever


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    Post by Liviforever Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:10 pm

    On a footballing note.

    SPFL clubs are to vote on a resolution recommending the termination of the 2019/20 season in the Ladbrokes Championship, Ladbrokes League 1 and Ladbrokes League 2, with final season placings determined by points per game in league matches played to date by each club.
    The resolution also recommends that matches in the Ladbrokes Premiership remain postponed for the time being, to give the best possible opportunity for the remaining 2019/20 fixtures to be played.
    However, if the SPFL Board determines that the remaining Premiership matches cannot be played, the Ladbrokes Premiership would also be terminated, with final season placings determined on the same basis.

    Falkirk will be gutted, only a point behind Raith, but if that gets voted through then it looks like the same will apply to Hearts being relegated, once the Premiership finally get to the same decision if play can't resume on their deadline.
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    Hoochthedrummer


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    Post by Hoochthedrummer Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:58 am

    I'd seen an argument that rather than take point averages as a final position, we take into account home and away averages and add that to the current points total, assuming everyone played 19 home and away games. I thought that would maybe lift us up a position with our home form but after crunching the numbers in an early hours boredom buster the only team that gains a position is Ross County by 0.05 points

    We'd finish in 5th place with 51.07 points which is a remarkable season for us.

    Liviforever
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    Post by Liviforever Thu Apr 09, 2020 3:15 pm

    Yeah our away form isn't great, but it isn't much worse than a lot of other teams, and as good, or better than a few too. Our home form is exceptional though, which is why our away form gets looked at so much, as a comparison.

    Great to know whatever gets decided, it wont really matter much to Livi, we're sitting pretty comfortable in 5th place, well safe from relegation, and by the looks of it, securely holding onto our current position unless the season gets completely voided as if it didn't happen. Which is the least likely to happen.
    Auld Nick
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    Post by Auld Nick Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:33 pm

    Yeah, looks like Rangers, Hearts, Patrick & Stranraer will be against the concept of basing it on points per game. Maybe the clubs that are still in with a chance of catching the divisional leaders.

    It probably doesn’t change too many teams positions so is akin to ending the season as it stands which is probably a reason why some are against it, the other being that it is unfair to end it while it is possible to catch team(s) above you... but as the club statement points out, we are prepared to give up the chance to challenge for a European place.

    It isn’t a perfect solution but it’s an unprecedented set of circumstances & any solution is preferable to voiding the season. Furthermore the very fact that the “non league” fraternity has pretty well ended their season as they stand, that would to me make the most sense if the top tier cannot get played before the new season is due to start.

    I must admit I hadn’t thought about new TV contracts which are due to start next season & are based on starting dates. I would have thought that could have been worked round but maybe not.
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    Post by Liviforever Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:55 pm

    Club statement:

    Following on from the recent announcement from the SPFL, we wanted to bring our own fans an update on our position regarding the written resolution received.
    Firstly, we would like to take the opportunity to thank both the SPFL and SFA for their hard work and effort in providing clubs with extensive legal opinions during this unprecedented time. The situation in which we all find ourselves in is unlike anything we have ever seen before, so we appreciate the difficulty in reaching an outcome that will satisfy all relevant parties.
    We are grateful for the continued communication over recent weeks via both regular emails and video calls, in which the information provided has remained clear and concise at all times and has allowed us to remain fully up to speed on all developments across a number of areas.
    We would like to put on record that we fully support the resolution put forward by the SPFL on Wednesday 8th April, as below:
    “SPFL clubs are to vote on a resolution recommending the termination of the 2019/20 season in the Ladbrokes Championship, Ladbrokes League 1 and Ladbrokes League 2, with final season placings determined by points per game in league matches played to date by each club.
    The resolution also recommends that matches in the Ladbrokes Premiership remain postponed for the time being, to give the best possible opportunity for the remaining 2019/20 fixtures to be played.
    However, if the SPFL Board determines that the remaining Premiership matches cannot be played, the Ladbrokes Premiership would also be terminated, with final season placings determined on the same basis.”
    There are a number of reasons as to why we are supporting this resolution, which we hope to outline below:
    In a letter from Scottish Ministers to the SPFL the guidance suggests that the restrictions currently in place may not be lifted until a minimum of the 10th June. However, our understanding is that it is likely to be later than this. These guidelines are in place to help to alleviate the pressure on the NHS.
    In our opinion, there is no viable space to finish the current season and we feel with over 75% of the games completed, an average points per game system is the best of all options, in which no option is great. Unfortunately, it is impossible to find a neutral ground which suits everyone.
    It is fundamental to Livingston Football Club that league prize money can be paid out, as we have a duty of care to our employees and fans to ensure we still have a football club for the following season. The only way for league money to be distributed is via the league season concluding and we must emphasise that voiding the season does not achieve this.
    From all discussions with the SFA/SPFL, it is our opinion that one thing that is paramount in fulfilling the new contracts from Sky Sports (exclusive rights holder) and Premier Sports is that the new season starts on the contractual dates, or as close to as possible within reason.
    As a club, we feel that living in this state of limbo is detrimental to next year’s revenue streams and closure is needed. Season Tickets and Commercial Sponsorship play a huge part in our business model and bringing the season to an end allows our business to focus on the new season ahead.
    From our perspective, this has been an extremely tough decision to come to as we as a football club would have loved the opportunity to finish the season and push for a European spot, which was potentially worth huge amounts of revenue. Our preferred option, back on March 13th, was to finish the current league before the new one started. It has become abundantly clear that this would be difficult at best to achieve, taking into account the pandemic, financial and contractual agreements.
    Finally, we would like to re-iterate our thanks to our governing bodies for all their help in these unprecedented times. We feel that it is important to provide transparency to our fans and fellow members.
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    Would think it is even tighter financially the further down the leagues you go, and clubs will be desperate to just get the league finished with to get paid their prize money, and get contracts sorted out for next season, this at least gives them a way to do it.

    Sevcovid-12 want their cake and eating it with their solution, pay out the prize money but keep open the option of finishing the league, or void the season and not give Celtic the title. I suspect they're as desperate for prize money as anyone in the Premiership though, and if the SPFL tell them it's finish the season before prize money can be paid out in full they'd soon change their tune. And find some way to get it done, whilst half heartedly protesting to keep their fans happy.

    From our pov it's the best season we've had in our history since finishing 3rd and getting a European place, so it's a right scunner not to finish playing all our games to see if we could've made it, but it is what it is, and the whole world is in this Covid-19 nightmare, I really can't see us being any further forward by the end of June to get games played, and fans able to be there watching them. Imo i'd hate to see behind closed door games being played if restriction were slackened enough to allow it, financially we'd be just as worse off, or maybe even more so with the expense of hosting games.
    I'd much rather call it as it is, get everyone paid their prize money, and move it on to next season so everyone can gear up and do what needs to be done contract wise, bringing in players/letting players go.

    The club statement pretty much tells us everything on that score, and i fully back it.
    Auld Nick
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    Post by Auld Nick Fri Apr 10, 2020 12:28 pm

    A lot of comments on the twitter thread, many praising the club for stating their position even if they don’t agree with it, others berating the club for “sooking up to Celtic” suggesting we are in an arrangement with them.... aye, so we are in an arrangement with the champions to keep them as champions having taken 5 points off them (okay we only got 4 points but they dropped 5; and it was almost 6) which has put a bigger dent in their attempts to retain their title than most of the rest of the league & in the meantime we haven’t taken a single point off Rangers & haven’t beaten Hearts.

    Rangers fans also talking of boycotting the Vale next season... wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, at least we wouldn’t have to listen to the vile bile that spews from their gaping maws (& no that is not a dig at their mammies).

    They mump & moan about sporting integrity must be upheld, citing that it was so called sporting integrity that saw them dumped in the 3rd tier & then say that voiding the season is the only way to keep SI but to my way of thinking voiding the season is completely the opposite of SI, how does it uphold SI to wipe out what has happened on the field so far this season?

    Still, we wait & we see how the vote turns out & hope that by some miracle we can finish the season on the pitch.
    Liviforever
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    Post by Liviforever Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:19 pm

    In Sevco and Celtic's world, you are either a supporter of one or the other, and if you aren't voting the same way as Sevco, then by their logic you must be a Celtic fan. That mentality gets applied to officials, football teams, fans of every football team, media, reporters, everything. They are a deluded bunch of self-absorbed arseholes (for want of a better word). Yeah and Bertie, I think we've taken more points off Celtic than Sevco have this season, so what does that say about Sevco, do they actually support Celtic, the mind boggles.

    The zombies love a boycotting threat, they were full of them after their oldco Rangers died and newco The Rangers got allowed into the bottom tier to start afresh. Got to laugh at their statement saying clubs have informed them the SPFL have tried to bully them into accepting this proposal, whilst their fans are threatening boycotts on whoever votes for it.

    What an example of sporting integrity they are to us all, keeping their history after going into liquidation, including the tainted titles they won whilst cheating with EBT's to buy and field players on wages they couldn't otherwise afford.

    They tried intimidation and bullying to try and start in the top flight, then in the 2nd tier, even wanting names revealed of who was voting on the panel to decide which division they played in. And that was after the Raith Chairman had come out and said he'd had death threats to him and his family because he voted against them coming into the 1st div/Championship, so they knew exactly what revealing the names of the panel deciding their fate would mean for those people. They are an abhorrent stain on society with their bigoted bile stinking up our game.
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    Post by Liviforever Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:36 pm

    Going by the DR's reckoning, after contacting all the clubs to get an idea how they'll be voting, it's touch and go in every league bar League One, where it has no chance of going through there, with 5 clubs opposed to the proposal.
    Every other league is one vote short, and a few clubs undeclared on which way they'd vote;

    Premiership clubs vote.

    Yes 7

    No 2 (no points for guessing which two)

    Undeclared- 3 (Hibs, Aberdeen-though they have hinted no, & Ross County). So 2 of those would need to vote yes.

    Championship.

    Yes-7

    No-2 (again pretty obv which two)

    Undeclared-1 (ICT)

    League One.

    Yes-4

    No-5

    Undeclared-1

    Baws burst with it needing 4 more votes to go through and only one left to decide which way they're voting.

    League Two

    Yes-7

    No-1 (Edin City) Obv fancied their chances of play offs promotion.

    Undeclared-2 (one yes vote needed).
    Auld Nick
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    Post by Auld Nick Fri Apr 10, 2020 6:29 pm

    Surely it’s not going to be decided on a divisional basis but an overall league basis?

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    Post by Liviforever Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:25 pm

    Think we need at least 8 clubs from each lower league division, and 9 in the Premiership to vote yes or it doesn't go through.
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    Post by Liviforever Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:05 pm

    Bertie Bassett wrote:

    Rangers fans also talking of boycotting the Vale next season... wouldn’t bother me in the slightest, at least we wouldn’t have to listen to the vile bile that spews from their gaping maws (& no that is not a dig at their mammies).


    Still, we wait & we see how the vote turns out & hope that by some miracle we can finish the season on the pitch.

    Premiership vote is in.

    Yes 9

    No 1

    And Sevco haven't voted, so they'll be boycotting every away game except Hearts next season, and Hearts will be getting relegated. lol!
    Auld Nick
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    Post by Auld Nick Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:41 am

    Who was the other abstention?

    Makes you wonder what all their mumping was about when they don’t even use their vote to show they are against it. Twisted.
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    Post by Liviforever Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:52 pm

    Aberdeen, Hibs and Ross County were the 3 not telling us which way they'd vote, although Aberdeen said they were leaning towards a No vote. Hibs then came out publicly with St Mirren to side with Livingston's Yes vote, and then Aberdeen decided to change their mind and vote Yes,so must be Ross County still undecided.

    Sevco not voting is just to be obstinate, as yesterday's deadline was only an invitation from the SPFL to vote, and they have another 28 days they can hold out for. Anyone with any decency would just get it done so clubs know exactly where we are, but Sevco, who prev said they want what's best for everyone, are holding out, being childish bastards in a huff about not getting their own way, not giving a feck about any other club's welfare. What a shocker eh!
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    Post by Liviforever Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:52 pm

    Ross County chairman on the bbc website saying they voted for it now too, so it was a 10-2 Yes vote in the Premiership.

    Only one vote holding the whole thing up now, Dundee in the Championship holding that pivotal vote, with it being 7-2 Yes and one more yes vote needed for it to pass in the Championship, and also go ahead in the other 2 divisions.

    Dundee said they voted No, The SPFL said they didn't get their vote in, and now Dundee are changing their mind, saying they might vote Yes.
    Sevco are now accusing Doncaster and the SPFL of jiggery pokery and want him suspended, pending an independent investigation into their claims, saying they have evidence of coercion and bribery, and that they wont be bullied into keeping silent.
    The SPFL chairman, Murdoch McLennan said put up or shut up, wanting them to show us their evidence.
    Oh and Sevco's also wanting the SPFL's legal adviser Rod McKenzie removed, I assume because he had said their counter proposal on what to do (pay the prize money but don't finish the league) was legally ineffective. Adding to the suspicion that Sevco are out for blood after being ignored and failing to stop the vote passing in the Premiership.

    Oh the joys of Scottish football, it never fails to entertain us by being a complete pantomime. Great that us Livi fans can sit back with our feet up watching how this all gets resolved, knowing that whatever happens, Livi are sitting pretty in 5th place not in the least bit effected by relegation, or having any shady motive other than just getting this shit done so we can prepare for next season (whenever that actually is). Just how good does that feel, being well away from all the drama. Greggy
    Auld Nick
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    Post by Auld Nick Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:27 pm

    Where are you seeing all this?
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    Post by Liviforever Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:39 pm

    Mostly on the bbc Scottish football website, twitter links to newspaper articles confirming it too, and stuff on football forums.

    Dunno what Inverness are playing at voting no, there's nae chance the season is going to get finished, be lucky if we even get the next one started by the looks of things. Not before August anyway, and it will prob have to be closed door games if they do. So you'd be looking at September/October getting this finished and play offs done, aint happening. Feckers are struggling financially too, so hell mend them if this doesn't go through and they're left hanging for another 5 or 6 months with no prize money paid out.

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