Stranraer v Livi (Wed) 7.45pm ko

I'm one of those poor beggars that made the 6 hour round trip tonight and I can assure you I'm not in the least bit f****n amused at what I witnessed tonight.

A team lacking in every department except ineptness and total pishness. THAT has to be THEE worst ever Livi team performance, seriously an absolute and total embarrassment. Shame on the whole f****n lot of them. Won't single out any particular player, they ranged from crap to absolute crap.

Oh by the way can I have my money back please.

Not long back in from about 250-odd miles and 6 hours of travelling to witness the biggest load of shite I've ever witnessed from a Livingston side. Without a shadow of a doubt, the worst result in our history. Total shitebaggery from the majority of the players and total incompetence from the management. Our setup is amateur at best, Stranraer were well drilled and organised and perfectly executed their gameplan all night and took us to the fucking cleaners with it.

David Hopkin hasn't got a clue. Initial setup of the team was all wrong, was readily apparent 10 minutes in that our midfield was non-existent and by the time Fotheringham was brought on the tie was gone essentially. Ludicrous that he waited so long to change it whilst a fraudster like Danny Mullen got 45 minutes and a no-hoper like Mullin got the same. Neither looked up for it but not many others did. Also, Jordan White at left wing? Absolute fucking madness. Such a shite, shite manager, and his "assistant" adds approximately fuck all to the club.

Silly goals to lose, all of them, but it's not surprising for anyone who's watched us regularly this season. We score first, concede, then collapse. Standard. Blame has to lie with the management for how they set up and motivate players for these situations. Neill and Halkett (surprisingly) were exposed time after time with the full-backs getting consistently caught out. Longridge's worst performance for us and another anonymous display from Kakay. An athlete who can hit a ball if I ever saw one.

Fair dues to McCallum for having the gonads to come over and apologise to the fans. He's a glorified Junior keeper but at least he could face supporters who spent good time and money to see that. I was going fucking tonto, probably the angriest I've been at a football game in a very, very long time. This whole club needs gutted from top to bottom, because it's on a death spiral even if we win these play-offs miraculously.

I was one of those plebs who took a half day at work to watch the most gutless, spineless Livingston performance I've ever seen. Afro hit it on the nail by saying the blame has to be with Hopkin and Martindale. I occasionally looked at the two of them in the dug out and there was nothing from them. No passion, no anger, nothing. But that came as a result of putting a team out where there was no balance in the midfield which would eventually get caught out early. I just didn't expect that exposure to come so quickly after going 1-0 up.

One to eleven, they were utter shite. Don't care if they're pointing fingers, telling each other to concentrate and not make mistakes but they were as bad as each other.

These players, some who clearly have what it takes to compete in this league, are not playing for the management team and I bet they're more focussed about getting away from them rather than what's at stake for this football club.

Worst score so far 4-1 v Rangers. Then we let Stranraer put 5 past us in the most important game of the season. Still coming to terms with that last night.

Everything that could go wrong did while everything Stranraer tried had some kind of Midas touch.

Then again there was the fact that those in one team were inspired enough to put in 110% effort while those in the other played like rabbits caught in headlights.

Still scratching my head!

Poor stuff on and off the park.  The players lack fight, they just didn't look bothered last night.  I don't think it's actually dawned on the players that they are playing for their livelihoods as full-time footballers!  I have always believed that when decent footballers are backed into a corner, most of them have what it takes to scrap their way out of a situation.  But it didn't look like we had any decent players last night.  It's really not a bad team on paper, what the hell is going on within the club that's turning us into a complete joke?  

Some of the supporters were a disgrace as well.  The constant negativity definitely gets to the players and brings them down.  The majority of the Stranraer support last night were the local chav young team but they were still better than our band of miserable bastards that probably couldn't utter anything encouraging if their live's depended on it.  Stranraer basically had a twelfth man last night thanks to their support.  Livi fans sitting on their hands for 90 minutes, maybe occasionally shouting abuse to players or telling other supporters to 'shut the fuck up' is basically like playing with ten men.

Saturday is probably the most crucial game of our history, for anyone who call themselves Livi fans to consider not being there is outrageous.  No passion from the fans carries on to the pitch.  If that's the case, we deserve to be relegated.

I feel sorry for the fans who endured the travel to put up with that.

I'm glad I wasn't able to get away from work in time.

This all stems from our reluctance to employ a proper manager and the continued next man up approach.

When we have had proper managers, we've done well until they've left (even Hughes) and as soon as the assistant comes in, we're back to square one.

4 of the last 5 managers have been next men up Assistant Managers and we've been rank under every one of them.

Gareth Evans who did ok.
Richie Burke who was goddam awful
Mark Burchill who did ok before he was found out the following season
David Hopkin who was worse than Burke.

It's embarrassing, we need a proper manager, if we continue on the next man up, the next one will be straw that breaks the camels back and if David Martindale is the next manager of Livingston, I for one will not be renewing my season ticket and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

spiggle wrote:I feel sorry for the fans who endured the travel to put up with that.

I'm glad I wasn't able to get away from work in time.

This all stems from our reluctance to employ a proper manager and the continued next man up approach.

When we have had proper managers, we've done well until they've left (even Hughes) and as soon as the assistant comes in, we're back to square one.

4 of the last 5 managers have been next men up Assistant Managers and we've been rank under every one of them.

Gareth Evans who did ok.
Richie Burke who was goddam awful
Mark Burchill who did ok before he was found out the following season
David Hopkin who was worse than Burke.

It's embarrassing, we need a proper manager, if we continue on the next man up, the next one will be straw that breaks the camels back and if David Martindale is the next manager of Livingston, I for one will not be renewing my season ticket and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

If this was Facebook I'd click on "like" for that spiggle.
We need a proper management team and we need to pay someone to run the day to day management of the club in a professional manner rather than relying on volunteers. If we can't do that we might as well give up because the status quo ain't working.

Playing Danny Mullen  in the starting line up after his last two appalling displays are reminiscent of someone who remarries for the ninth time - a triumph of hope over experience.

Loaning out Craig Sives who I'm told has really been a revelation to the Cowdenbeath attack instead of Cole is baffling.

Continuing to play Kakay as a full back - see my comments for Mullen.

It really makes you wonder what the game plan is.

I appreciate Sherrin is pretty slow and probably doesnt have the necessary to make it at this level but one thing you can be sure of; he will give 100% and more. He would battle and shake up a solid defence.

I would also question the strategy of playing loanees in such a vital game when the result doesn't really mean that much to them. Also where the heck is Gary Glen - I'm not his greatest fan but....

Anyway I appreciate many are going to be very angry over last night's result but we now need to look forward. Three goals is a task, no doubt but if we can get the first goal (AND it really needs to be in the first quarter of an hour) then its game on. A 2-0 lead by half-time and its really game on.

Now I know we are capable of scoring two goals in the first half but its the clean sheet that worries me. We managed it against the rangers; albeit they were on a downward spiral but even so.

Guys; I know many of you will be thinking I'm unduly optimistic and unrealistic and you're probably right but isn't this what supporting Livi is all about. I don't know how many dark days we've been through; how many charlatans we've been involved with but we're still here.

If we stay in the Championship then it will be because we deserve to; likewise if we go down.

Leastways I've always enjoyed our visits to Peterhead and others and have got pretty bored with the current mob even if next season will likely have Dundee United; Killie; Hibs; St Mirren; maybe Falkirk and Dunfermline in it (will look like 80% of the SPL from 5+ years ago).

For those that do not relish spending another £10 on this; I totally get it. However who knows; we've been dire all season with occasional moments of sunshine - maybe Saturday will be a heatwave?

spiggle wrote:I for one will not be renewing my season ticket and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

It's no surprise that the club is declining with attitudes like this. We don't have the right to expect anymore than we've got just now with our fair weather supporters. No supporters - no money - no club. Things won't get better if we just stop going to games. Personally, as long as I am solvent I will always renew my season ticket no matter who is in charge and no matter what league we're in. But it's like a lot of our fans have just given up and are content to watch us go to the wall. Plastic fans in my opinion.

ol1vercloff wrote:

spiggle wrote:I for one will not be renewing my season ticket and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

It's no surprise that the club is declining with attitudes like this.  We don't have the right to expect anymore than we've got just now with our fair weather supporters.  No supporters - no money - no club.  Things won't get better if we just stop going to games.  Personally, as long as I am solvent I will always renew my season ticket no matter who is in charge and no matter what league we're in.  But it's like a lot of our fans have just given up and are content to watch us go to the wall.  Plastic fans in my opinion.

To be fair he did qualify that by saying if Martindale was in charge; and he didn't say he wouldn't attend; just not renew his season ticket.

I will renew my season ticket because I like my seat and it took a long time to get it but admit I do feel uneasy about a class A drug dealer being involved with the club at any level.

ol1vercloff wrote:

spiggle wrote:I for one will not be renewing my season ticket and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

It's no surprise that the club is declining with attitudes like this.  We don't have the right to expect anymore than we've got just now with our fair weather supporters.  No supporters - no money - no club.  Things won't get better if we just stop going to games.  Personally, as long as I am solvent I will always renew my season ticket no matter who is in charge and no matter what league we're in.  But it's like a lot of our fans have just given up and are content to watch us go to the wall.  Plastic fans in my opinion.

You're being harsh here. He qualified that statement with the comment about Martindale becoming manager -something that I would hope is highly unlikely. I guess I will always be a 100%, attend every game, Livi fan but after last night and the previous hiring of our general manager to sit in the dugout as assistant, then fans are rightly annoyed.

I know the folk running things are working hard while trying to keep their other businesses going but there comes a time when maybe you have to cut the playing squad and spend money on hiring someone to run things professionally day to day.

I'll be there on Saturday looking for, if not a miracle, then at least a reaction to Stranraer. Wherever we are playing next year I'll be there too. But last night summed up our season and lessons have to be learned

Durnford wrote:

ol1vercloff wrote:

spiggle wrote:I for one will not be renewing my season ticket and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

It's no surprise that the club is declining with attitudes like this.  We don't have the right to expect anymore than we've got just now with our fair weather supporters.  No supporters - no money - no club.  Things won't get better if we just stop going to games.  Personally, as long as I am solvent I will always renew my season ticket no matter who is in charge and no matter what league we're in.  But it's like a lot of our fans have just given up and are content to watch us go to the wall.  Plastic fans in my opinion.

To be fair he did qualify that by saying if Martindale was in charge; and he didn't say he wouldn't attend; just not renew his season ticket.

I will renew my season ticket because I like my seat and it took a long time to get it but admit I do feel uneasy about a class A drug dealer being involved with the club at any level.

Let's get things into perspective. I've been a season ticket holder since Livi were in the old Second Divison under Ray Stewart and been a season ticket holder every year since.

I have issues with the way that the club is run and have done since Pearce Flynn took over. This is the first time that I have felt that I do not want to renew. It's not relegation, it's not for lack of supporting the team, it would be purely down to Livingston appointing a Class A Drug Dealer and criminal as manager. That would be the only reason.

If Hopkin is manager next season, I'll renew, if they appoint any other manager I'll renew, if they appoint Martindale, I won't and I will bet that I'm not alone.

My attitude or support of the team has never wavered. I've followed Livingston through the good times and the bad, I've been to every senior away ground in Scotland. I will be there on Saturday paying my tenner and cheering on my team.

The performance of the team last night was awful, but I have seen some god awful Livi performances in my time. My fear is that a convicted Drug Dealer will be put in charge of the team, that is not acceptable to me.

ol1vercloff wrote:

spiggle wrote:I for one will not be renewing my season ticket and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

It's no surprise that the club is declining with attitudes like this.  We don't have the right to expect anymore than we've got just now with our fair weather supporters.  No supporters - no money - no club.  Things won't get better if we just stop going to games.  Personally, as long as I am solvent I will always renew my season ticket no matter who is in charge and no matter what league we're in.  But it's like a lot of our fans have just given up and are content to watch us go to the wall.  Plastic fans in my opinion.

I am in the same boat as spiggle. I am already uneasy at the fact Martindale seems to have simply bought his place on the bench; by all accounts, based on what I've heard, if Hopkin goes then Martindale is next in line to take over.

People can do what they want with their money. But to label someone a plastic fan for not renewing his season ticket if an absolute fraudster in placed in the manager's chair is ridiculous, and makes you look like a blinded clown.

Let's be honest, not renewing the season ticket means not attending games. 'I'll no' be back etc'. Maybe I'm just too relaxed on crims and the like but if the man has served his time, he is entitled to earn a living. And with the professional game full of people with criminal records, it's probable one will rock up at our club. Maybe I do blindly support my team but I'm happy to do that. I would rather admit to that than be one of those people that used to go to the games. There are thousands of plastic 'used to' fans. Very sad

ol1vercloff wrote:Let's be honest, not renewing the season ticket means not attending games. 'I'll no' be back etc'. Maybe I'm just too relaxed on crims and the like but if the man has served his time, he is entitled to earn a living. And with the professional game full of people with criminal records, it's probable one will rock up at our club. Maybe I do blindly support my team but I'm happy to do that. I would rather admit to that than be one of those people that used to go to the games. There are thousands of plastic 'used to' fans. Very sad

David Martindale by all accounts has no coaching badges or professional footballing experience, and sounds like he's still an utterly shady character. But sure, people like spiggle who've had a season ticket for 20 years and have finally had enough of this omnishambles are the problem.

Need a proper manager. None of this promoting the assistant manager pish, a method which tends to fail constantly all across football.

Afro wrote:

ol1vercloff wrote:Let's be honest, not renewing the season ticket means not attending games. 'I'll no' be back etc'. Maybe I'm just too relaxed on crims and the like but if the man has served his time, he is entitled to earn a living. And with the professional game full of people with criminal records, it's probable one will rock up at our club. Maybe I do blindly support my team but I'm happy to do that. I would rather admit to that than be one of those people that used to go to the games. There are thousands of plastic 'used to' fans. Very sad

David Martindale by all accounts has no coaching badges or professional footballing experience, and sounds like he's still an utterly shady character. But sure, people like spiggle who've had a season ticket for 20 years and have finally had enough of this omnishambles are the problem.

Herein lies the problem.

We have a new regime on board that is blighted by the failings of the old regime. No-one trusts them and they not only continue on the path of previous regimes by continually sacking managers and having no stability. They not only do that but employ Martindale and make no effort to properly market the club to try and attract new fans in.

I'll ask the question here ol1vercloff, what are we doing to promote the club to bring new fans in and to retain the current fanbase.

Do you think that we will lose season ticket holders by employing Martindale as Manager or do you think we will retain and possibly gain season ticket holders by employing a proper tried and tested manager?

Do you think that having a board and management team that properly market the club would bring in more fans or do you think that doing things the same old way will attract them in.

I remember the fan days where we opened up the stadium, fans got to meet and greet the players, have a pint with them, bring the kids, get autographs, have a beat the goalie and other competitions on the pitch and I also remember the two day tournament where we got four games over 2 days.

There is loads that we could do to improve it here, but they don't.

Saturday should have been a chance to win back some fans with tenner to get in and some play-off football but that has all went Pete Tong after last night's performance.

Afro wrote:David Martindale by all accounts has no coaching badges or professional footballing experience, and sounds like he's still an utterly shady character. But sure, people like spiggle who've had a season ticket for 20 years and have finally had enough of this omnishambles are the problem.

And that is based on? Nothing? Unless you know Martindale personally and/or know for a fact that he still dabbles in illegal behaviour to this day, I think you're making an unfair assumption. The issue isn't Martindale. The issue is that the team is getting worse and some people don't want to admit that they don't love the club enough to stick with it through the tough times. Instead, clamber onto their high horse and pin it on a guy that's been an employee of the club for maybe the best part of this season, or maybe even part of last season too? I forget when he joined us. If Martindale was leading us to 3rd in the Premier League every season and making us competitive in Europe, the pitch forks would be left in the shed.

spiggle wrote:
Herein lies the problem.

We have a new regime on board that is blighted by the failings of the old regime. No-one trusts them and they not only continue on the path of previous regimes by continually sacking managers and having no stability. They not only do that but employ Martindale and make no effort to properly market the club to try and attract new fans in.

I'll ask the question here ol1vercloff, what are we doing to promote the club to bring new fans in and to retain the current fanbase.

Do you think that we will lose season ticket holders by employing Martindale as Manager or do you think we will retain and possibly gain season ticket holders by employing a proper tried and tested manager?

Do you think that having a board and management team that properly market the club would bring in more fans or do you think that doing things the same old way will attract them in.

I remember the fan days where we opened up the stadium, fans got to meet and greet the players, have a pint with them, bring the kids, get autographs, have a beat the goalie and other competitions on the pitch and I also remember the two day tournament where we got four games over 2 days.

There is loads that we could do to improve it here, but they don't.

Saturday should have been a chance to win back some fans with tenner to get in and some play-off football but that has all went Pete Tong after last night's performance.

I agree to an extent with what you're getting at. It was good old days when these fan days went on but they usually followed a bit of success on the park. People will only turn up if we win, it's sad but true. We need more money to get more wins. The more fans that turn up to games and renew season tickets, the more money we get. But obviously the majority of dosh needs to come from the Board. Gordon Ford talking about getting us to the Premier League is nonsense. With the budget we have, matching Dumbarton in the league standings is probably where we should be aiming for now. But I believe the Board can only do so much, there has to be a want from supporters to turn up. Some people are expecting to be lured in to attending the games with a bargain. But Scottish football doesn't really work like that anymore. We have to go to games for the love of the club, there is no value for money in our national product.

ol1vercloff wrote:

spiggle wrote:
Herein lies the problem.

We have a new regime on board that is blighted by the failings of the old regime. No-one trusts them and they not only continue on the path of previous regimes by continually sacking managers and having no stability. They not only do that but employ Martindale and make no effort to properly market the club to try and attract new fans in.

I'll ask the question here ol1vercloff, what are we doing to promote the club to bring new fans in and to retain the current fanbase.

Do you think that we will lose season ticket holders by employing Martindale as Manager or do you think we will retain and possibly gain season ticket holders by employing a proper tried and tested manager?

Do you think that having a board and management team that properly market the club would bring in more fans or do you think that doing things the same old way will attract them in.

I remember the fan days where we opened up the stadium, fans got to meet and greet the players, have a pint with them, bring the kids, get autographs, have a beat the goalie and other competitions on the pitch and I also remember the two day tournament where we got four games over 2 days.

There is loads that we could do to improve it here, but they don't.

Saturday should have been a chance to win back some fans with tenner to get in and some play-off football but that has all went Pete Tong after last night's performance.

I agree to an extent with what you're getting at.  It was good old days when these fan days went on but they usually followed a bit of success on the park.  People will only turn up if we win, it's sad but true.  We need more money to get more wins.  The more fans that turn up to games and renew season tickets, the more money we get.  But obviously the majority of dosh needs to come from the Board.  Gordon Ford talking about getting us to the Premier League is nonsense.  With the budget we have, matching Dumbarton in the league standings is probably where we should be aiming for now.  But I believe the Board can only do so much, there has to be a want from supporters to turn up.  Some people are expecting to be lured in to attending the games with a bargain.  But Scottish football doesn't really work like that anymore.  We have to go to games for the love of the club, there is no value for money in our national product.

The fan days happened in the old 1st and 2nd division and that was part of the reason that I started going.

With our budget, we should be concentrating on doing the best we can in the league that we are in. The board needs to do some simple things like engage with potential new fans, promote the club, engage with previous season book holders, find out why they stopped going and see what they can do to bring them back.

The Board can only do so much but they really aren't doing that much and Gordon Ford is sitting in his nice house in Michigan totally disconnected with the fans.

Our way forward and lifeblood has always been our youth but the current board and Burchill got rid of that.
We have a huge market here in West Lothian where people do want to come, we just need to show them that it's a fun affordable place to come.

To be fair the whole ex drug dealer thing doesn't really bother me about Martindale. Its the fact that the management team haven't got a clue what is going on. And from what we all read he is heavily involved in that side of things. No qualifications, no idea.

'Scottish football doesn't work like that', yeah that's the problem, it is stuck in an era that doesn't exist anymore and unless it gets itself moved into the 21st century it will die.
You wont get fans along to Livi just because there is a football club based there and think the ones that have stuck with this nightmare of a clubs 'should just come or they are plastic fans'. That wont accomplish anything, you can call them what you want but it solves nothing and it would be better looking at ways to make Livi more attractive than scorn the only fans who have stuck with them for so long through all their troubles and strife.

Appointing a manager who can actually manage would be the first line of business, as has been mentioned, this going with the assistant, then assistants assistant, and so on it goes diluting experience and credentials with every appointment until we have a complete and useless appointment with absolute no managerial credentials in charge. How the hell are any players meant to work under that, let alone inexperienced ones.

Getting a decent marketing strategy for pre season would be my next priority, advertising campaign which would have more than a message on our OS and page in the local Courier.
We need to get Livi out there to the community and also bring the people to the stadium with an open day and actually make an effort to sell the club to them.

If we do go down, and it looks extremely likely now, maybe being relegated would be good long term for the team, as was mentioned on the other forum, we'd be cannon fodder next season and it would be a 10th place straight relegation after being everyone's 3 pointer team to play. If we can survive the financial hit dropping down and retain a core section of our team, and get a manager with some experience that has done it before at this level, then we could be straight back up in a better position than we went down.

We've players that have done well in League One, we need a proper manager to play them in their proper positions though and organise them into a coherent unit.

One thing is for sure though, we can't just stumble along as we are now or we'll be following Cowdenbeath with a double relegation and dear knows how we'll survive financially if that happens.

Who would be assistant to Martindale if (when) he gets the gig? GK Coach? Physio? We'll run out of staff to appoint as our manager if we're not careful.

There isn't much you could call attractive in Scottish football these days. There aren't many attempts by the Board to polish this turd but a big part of supporting our team is sticking with it! I've been through too many good and bad times with Livi to just walk away.

Durnford wrote:Playing Danny Mullen  in the starting line up after his last two appalling displays are reminiscent of someone who remarries for the ninth time - a triumph of hope over experience.

Loaning out Craig Sives who I'm told has really been a revelation to the Cowdenbeath attack instead of Cole is baffling.

Continuing to play Kakay as a full back - see my comments for Mullen.

It really makes you wonder what the game plan is.

I appreciate Sherrin is pretty slow and probably doesnt have the necessary to make it at this level but one thing you can be sure of; he will give 100% and more. He would battle and shake up a solid defence.

I would also question the strategy of playing loanees in such a vital game when the result doesn't really mean that much to them. Also where the heck is Gary Glen - I'm not his greatest fan but....

Anyway I appreciate many are going to be very angry over last night's result but we now need to look forward. Three goals is a task, no doubt but if we can get the first goal (AND it really needs to be in the first quarter of an hour) then its game on. A 2-0 lead by half-time and its really game on.

Now I know we are capable of scoring two goals in the first half but its the clean sheet that worries me. We managed it against the rangers; albeit they were on a downward spiral but even so.

Guys; I know many of you will be thinking I'm unduly optimistic and unrealistic and you're probably right but isn't this what supporting Livi is all about. I don't know how many dark days we've been through; how many charlatans we've been involved with but we're still here.

If we stay in the Championship then it will be because we deserve to; likewise if we go down.

Leastways I've always enjoyed our visits to Peterhead and others and have got pretty bored with the current mob even if next season will likely have Dundee United; Killie; Hibs; St Mirren; maybe Falkirk and Dunfermline in it (will look like 80% of the SPL from 5+ years ago).

For those that do not relish spending another £10 on this; I totally get it. However who knows; we've been dire all season with occasional moments of sunshine - maybe Saturday will be a heatwave?

Even though the steam is still pouring outa my ears after witnessing last night's direfest, you're spot on with your assessment. Supporting Livi is, a lot of the time, a project that frequently fails. But its our team not the here today gone tomorrow management team that are making such a pigs ear of things. Difficult thought it will be, let's get behind them on Saturday in one final push. Who knows/ the team might just respond.