Question - Home Gate

Considering how well the team are doing and the fact that we are playing some of the best football in a decade; it is worrying that our home gates actually seems to be going down.

At £5 PATG price for an under 16 it is worrying that I see virtually zero under 16's in the west stand; in comparison to how many we had a few years back - obviously people grow up but where are the replacements coming from.

For Falkirk, a town about the same size as Livingston, to get a home gate of 4000 and other teams with significantly greater gates e.g.Morton and St Mirren we are in serious danger of slipping into oblivion in a competitive sense.

Question - is it time to look at opening the south stand again for selected matches and provide free tickets to schools again? For the most part these are not turning up to the games and their parents are obviously not interested enough to fork out the £23 (parent and child) cost to come and watch us some championship side.

I'm not talking every game but maybe four or five home games a season would help get the word out - at the moment it would appear our marketing budget is zero so its not surprising that no-one seems to know a game is on?

The last time we played Dumbarton we had an attendance of 828 and on Saturday it was 938. The average attendance from four games so far is 1490 and overall last season it was 796. Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't look like it's going down. Yes, we have had and will continue to have away supports who outnumber us but these are clubs who will continue to be supported well in numbers regardless of where they are in the league or recent results.

As with the £5 PATG offer, that's as good as it's going to get. I know it can be difficult for some families or single parents to cough up even that amount to take their children out to the football for the day but for the majority, this is more than a reasonable amount to pay for entry. Some will be put off by the price of entry for adults but most clubs are charging either the same amount or even more in some cases. The club has to get something in return for giving these out and to be quite frank, I wouldn't expect many families to return simply because they're expected to pay up for another visit.

As with Falkirk, the reason why they get strong numbers is down to being an established club in the community with generations of families supporting the team; recent success with a Scottish Cup final and finishing runners-up in the league; and having the resources to afford an employee or employees who are able to go and market the club correctly. Given our already tight budget, we simply can't afford this.

LiviCub wrote:The last time we played Dumbarton we had an attendance of 828 and on Saturday it was 938. The average attendance from four games so far is 1490 and overall last season it was 796. Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't look like it's going down. Yes, we have had and will continue to have away supports who outnumber us but these are clubs who will continue to be supported well in numbers regardless of where they are in the league or recent results.

As with the £5 PATG offer, that's as good as it's going to get. I know it can be difficult for some families or single parents to cough up even that amount to take their children out to the football for the day but for the majority, this is more than a reasonable amount to pay for entry. Some will be put off by the price of entry for adults but most clubs are charging either the same amount or even more in some cases. The club has to get something in return for giving these out and to be quite frank, I wouldn't expect many families to return simply because they're expected to pay up for another visit.

As with Falkirk, the reason why they get strong numbers is down to being an established club in the community with generations of families supporting the team; recent success with a Scottish Cup final and finishing runners-up in the league; and having the resources to afford an employee or employees who are able to go and market the club correctly. Given our already tight budget, we simply can't afford this.

Last season we were in the first with virtually no travelling support and the last time we played Dumbarton we were odds on to be going down - however a few seasons before even under Flynn we were getting 2 - 2.5k ?

You seem to be missing my point about the cost; it isn't that its too expensive but for many parents they couldn't even be bothered to come down to the ground almost irrespective of how much the entrance fee was. twenty years ago my kids got given tickets at their school and I was persuaded to take them down even though I'd grown up supporting a different side in a different country (principality). As with quite a few others I was bitten by the bug and we've been season ticket holders for about the last eighteen years; my kids have grown up and two of them still come to the games whenever they can. Up until then though I knew the football club existed but couldn't be bothered to go down until my kids nagged me to take them.

Falkirk were an example but we've also had success having just strolled away with the division one league title at a canter and have been established in the town for over twenty years - a period almost long enough for three generation to come along to support the club. I'm not saying we can get 4k coming through the gates but 2k would be the very minimum we should aspire to.

Free tickets to schools was one of the cheapest and most effective forms of marketing; even if they families dont return next week at least they are aware that the club exists.

Wouldn't say we were established in Livingston for 22 good years though D, we've gone through 2 admins and just as many close shaves avoiding another one. Our crowds had hit rock bottom the last couple of seasons, getting near 1,000 is actually better than we've been against small supports like Dumbarton. Can't see it ever getting back to the crowds we had under Flynn, that was the start of our declining support too, but a couple of years more like this one being an established Championship club wouldn't do us any harm.

Durnford wrote:

LiviCub wrote:The last time we played Dumbarton we had an attendance of 828 and on Saturday it was 938. The average attendance from four games so far is 1490 and overall last season it was 796. Correct me if I'm wrong but that doesn't look like it's going down. Yes, we have had and will continue to have away supports who outnumber us but these are clubs who will continue to be supported well in numbers regardless of where they are in the league or recent results.

As with the £5 PATG offer, that's as good as it's going to get. I know it can be difficult for some families or single parents to cough up even that amount to take their children out to the football for the day but for the majority, this is more than a reasonable amount to pay for entry. Some will be put off by the price of entry for adults but most clubs are charging either the same amount or even more in some cases. The club has to get something in return for giving these out and to be quite frank, I wouldn't expect many families to return simply because they're expected to pay up for another visit.

As with Falkirk, the reason why they get strong numbers is down to being an established club in the community with generations of families supporting the team; recent success with a Scottish Cup final and finishing runners-up in the league; and having the resources to afford an employee or employees who are able to go and market the club correctly. Given our already tight budget, we simply can't afford this.

Last season we were in the first with virtually no travelling support and the last time we played Dumbarton we were odds on to be going down - however a few seasons before even under Flynn we were getting 2 - 2.5k ?

You seem to be missing my point about the cost; it isn't that its too expensive but for many parents they couldn't even be bothered to come down to the ground almost irrespective of how much the entrance fee was. twenty years ago my kids got given tickets at their school and I was persuaded to take them down even though I'd grown up supporting a different side in a different country (principality). As with quite a few others I was bitten by the bug and we've been season ticket holders for about the last eighteen years; my kids have grown up and two of them still come to the games whenever they can. Up until then though I knew the football club existed but couldn't be bothered to go down until my kids nagged me to take them.

Falkirk were an example but we've also had success having just strolled away with the division one league title at a canter and have been established in the town for over twenty years - a period almost long enough for three generation to come along to support the club. I'm not saying we can get 4k coming through the gates but 2k would be the very minimum we should aspire to.

Free tickets to schools was one of the cheapest and most effective forms of marketing; even if they families dont return next week at least they are aware that the club exists.

A few seasons before even Flynn was around was when were in the SPL when a club is naturally bound to get some significant increase compared to what we get now in a lower league. I think the club have mentioned it on a number of occasions that even getting 1,000 season ticket holders would be seen as a success so to double that number will take more than just the idea of free tickets given to school children.

When you say you 'caught the bug', it was caught at a time when the club was quickly going through the leagues (at a long-term cost). Seeing a winning team is only going to encourage you to go back otherwise most wouldn't bother for a relatively new team. 20 years ago, Livingston and West Lothian was a much different and more restricted area compared to now in terms of what families could do with activities and places of interest so some had no other choice but to take up the free tickets and go watch them. Children still play and are interested in football but their attitudes have changed with more organised clubs, activities and the generation of 'Generation Z' being more interested in technology.

You can make anyone aware of anything but it's still a waste of time and money if nothing barely changes. Would giving away 500 tickets and only 50 turn up really be seen as a success? And what if only 20 out of those 50 return to the next game? That's only 4% from your original 'target market'. Crowds are only realistically going to increase if we started becoming a team who would be challenging for promotion or did actually get promoted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I still haven't really noticed the club doing more to get people down to the games. The only way I know a game is on is if I check the website, which people not thinking about heading to the game won't be doing.

Remember having to move my season ticket away from C2 because they were giving out school tickets, 1st game after that I sat away from my regular seat expecting C2 to be filled out with school kids and their parents, was back in there the next week because of how empty it was. Did they even bother giving out any tickets?

Dad being a Hearts fan meant if I wanted to go to the football he'd take me through to Tynecastle, school tickets were my only way of getting to watch Livi while I was still in primary school. Would hazard a guess that I'm not the only one who kept coming back after getting a few free tickets.

It makes me cringe when i see any highlights that an opposing club does of any of our games.To see the home stand so sparse even including away supporters is soul destroying.Someone once said that West Lothian does not deserve to have a senior team in this county.Beginning to understand what they were on about.Its abundantly clear that the club cannot afford to hire some sort of marketing team with the limited resources that we have compared to other teams of bigger stature in our league.Im lucky that ive seen the so called glory years but i sometimes worry about the long term future of the club when so many that were there during that time have deserted us in their droves.The odd gate like the upcoming Dun Utd will probably paper over the cracks for a wee while and its such a shame with things going so well on the field but not sure if the same can be said offield.The guys upstairs are obviously doing their best but through no fault of their own im not so sure it will be able to continue at this level for the long term .Hope im wrong and apologise for the negativity.

I'd say that two administrations and numerous court cases have gone a long way to driving people away.

We have a long way to go to repair the damage caused by successive dodgy owners in Flynn and Massone. The mad Italian actually went out of his way to insult fans in his dying days at the club?

In the early days we had novelty and a great public relations guy in Jim Leishman. We were also on the way up with financial backing. Nothing brings the fans out like a winning team and that's what we had.

It's a vicious circle now. More fans would bring in more money and more money could be used to not only find ways to publicise the club but also to pay wages that would have kept Buchanan or got in Andy Ryan as strikers.

Hopefully our good start might initiate a trickle of returning fans who will stay with us. We've been down to the hard core support in recent times so maybe we can start building again at last.

Troy wrote:It makes me cringe when i see any highlights that an opposing club does of any of our games.To see the home stand so sparse even including away supporters  is soul destroying.Someone once said that West Lothian does not deserve to have a senior team in this county.Beginning to understand what they were on about.Its abundantly clear that the club cannot afford to hire some sort of marketing team with the limited resources that we have compared to other teams of bigger stature in our league.Im lucky that ive seen the so called glory years but i sometimes worry about the long term future of the club when so many that were there during that time have deserted us in their droves.The odd gate like the upcoming Dun Utd will probably paper over the cracks for a wee while and its such a shame with things going so well on the field but not sure if the same can be said offield.The guys upstairs are obviously doing their best but through no fault of their own im not so sure it will be able to continue at this level for the long term .Hope im wrong and apologise for the negativity.

Makes it all the more remarkable how well Hoppy has done recruiting a team that is sitting 4th in the league on the low budget he has. Whether or not we'll be able to stay there remains to be seen but we're punching well above our financial weight this season.