Hearts v Livi

Reckon there'll be several changes for this game, players looked fecked in the 2nd half against Aberdeen, and a few will be doubtful after taking knocks. Bahamboula and Montano may not make it, or at least not start, and DM said Shamal wont be playing, with him not being able to take goal kicks or deal with pass backs, it would put us in a situation where Hearts would be right down our throat pressing us, esp at goal kicks where Fitzwater taking them leaves us exposed to attacks if we don't win the first ball, or get onto the 2nd ball, as we're playing them onside right up to our 6 yard box. Which Aberdeen exploited in the 2nd half.

Hopefully we get an early first goal to give us something to hold onto, and we can at least come away with a point, 3 pts would be fantastic though, mon the Lions, make it 3 wins in a row.

Question…. Specifically in terms of playing the opposition offside…. What is the difference between the goalie taking the goal kick short inside the box with us playing it out & a defender playing it long?

The first scenario means all of the opposition is onside, as does the second scenario, the only difference is we have the ball when we play it out but we invite pressure & a high press; the second scenario, at least the defender taking the kick is back to defend against the guy being played onside… so keep the other centre back deep as well and the only difference is you have a battle for the second ball.

What I’m basically saying is, the excuse of defenders taking long goal kicks is a smokescreen for the real problem on Tuesday night… we came out for the second half and played far too passively & we put a passenger on as a sub.

George’s penalty save should have fired us up for the second half but somebody gave them Horlicks instead of an energy drink.

Tomorrow… Hearts have improved greatly since we last played them and I’d be happy to come away with a point. If Shamal is not playing I’d rather see Ivan in goal. We will see also whether DM is true to his word, he said that a fit Bruce Anderson starts after the Killie game and he started him on Tuesday, he didn’t score but put in a decent shift… let’s see if he starts tomorrow.

Doesn’t sound as though there were any other injury worries in DM’s pre-match conference on Livi YouTube channel. So I’d like to see the same starting xi but could live with Penrice starting and Montano coming on later to exploit tired legs in the Hearts defence.

If as L/F has suggested there's several changes tomorrow my expectations will nose dive here.Davie at it again biggin up the opposition again pre match as he's done the last two games, mind games eh!.In this instance he may well be right.Hearts up front as opposed to ours gives me a sense of great concern for this.The longer we can keep them at bay then hopefully we can sneak something from this.Like Nick id take a point here to add to the six in the last couple of weeks. Would be a decent return before the break.Of course a Lions win would leave this post totally irrelevant and me with egg on my face,which id gladly accept. Mon the Lions..

I think it makes a big difference if the CB takes the GK's, we're immediately under pressure when we lose the long kick up to the halfway line, and can have 3 or 4 opposition players running at us. When it's played out to the CB he is already moving up the pitch with it and can pick out a player with everyone moving, also hits it longer up the channel.

Also if we're not wanting to play it back to Shamal because of his injury, saving him from kicking it, we're again under more pressure with that option not available. Prob would have to just kick it out of play, and with ball boys having balls ready to give immediate service to the Hearts players it would be straight back on the pitch putting pressure on us again.

Anyway, against Hearts with them playing at home they'll have more possession anyway, so no point making it even easier for them being in our half playing with a GK not able to kick the ball.

Can see St Kelly coming back in, as he'll be pretty fresh, and Penrice too if Montano is carrying a knock, apart from that and Konovalov replacing Shamal, we should be playing everyone else. Actually i wouldn't mind seeing Jamie Brandon coming in for Bahamboula (if he's carrying a knock), i reckon he's more suited to take his place as an attacking mid come wide front three player, i've liked his energy and attacking style down the wing every time he's played for us.

We haven't had a win at Tynecastle since we came up and I don't expect that to change tomorrow. A point would do me. I'm wondering what Livi team will turn up. I'd like the one from the first half in the Don's game but I doubt that is what I'll see.
Wonder how many penalties tomorrow. Will VAR be our friend or our enemy? Craig Napier is the ref with John Beaton on VAR Questions Questions.

Liviforever wrote:I think it makes a big difference if the CB takes the GK's, we're immediately under pressure when we lose the long kick up to the halfway line, and can have 3 or 4 opposition players running at us. When it's played out to the CB he is already moving up the pitch with it and can pick out a player with everyone moving, also hits it longer up the channel.

Also if we're not wanting to play it back to Shamal because of his injury, saving him from kicking it, we're again under more pressure with that option not available. Prob would have to just kick it out of play, and with ball boys having balls ready to give immediate service to the Hearts players it would be straight back on the pitch putting pressure on us again.

Anyway, against Hearts with them playing at home they'll have more possession anyway, so no point making it even easier for them being in our half playing with a GK not able to kick the ball.

Can see St Kelly coming back in, as he'll be pretty fresh, and Penrice too if Montano is carrying a knock, apart from that and Konovalov replacing Shamal, we should be playing everyone else. Actually i wouldn't mind seeing Jamie Brandon coming in for Bahamboula (if he's carrying a knock), i reckon he's more suited to take his place as an attacking mid come wide front three player, i've liked his energy and attacking style down the wing every time he's played for us.

Davie said Jamie Brandon is injured. He also said we had one or two knocks but gave the impression that apart from Shamal everyone had come through from Tuesday night. In saying that he's probably not going to give anything away to Robbie Neilson. Pittman had to come off on Wednesday so wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start

Orco just posted pretty much what I was going to say about injuries….

LF… I was questioning more in relation to the excuse for the poor second half on Tuesday not advocating we should start with an injured keeper. When we play out from the back we invite pressure and have paid the penalty for it by conceding goals at times, so the “it plays everyone onside” comment is irrelevant as we do the same playing it out from the back. The real issue was failing to win the first or second ball when Fitz or Ayo sent the kicks long, because we were too passive and simply invited Aberdeen to attack repeatedly. We got away with it thanks to Shamal managing to make good saves despite his injury & with Penrice, Boyes & Nouble eventually managing to break up play by getting hold of the ball for a spell and winning free kicks.

Starting the game tomorrow with an injured keeper would be incredibly stupid.

Konalov in goal,Pitts on the bench,no striker,stacked midfield ‍�.Only one outcome here,or not.Brickin it.

So much for a fit Bruce Anderson starting every game; now, I understand he’s playing a different style but is it really necessary against a Hearts side that is doing better but not setting the heather on fire?

Troy, Nouble is the lone striker mate.

Sorry Nick,I don't see Joel as an out and out striker ,only my opinion. Weve rode our luck in that first half for the majority despite a couple of chances towards the end.Once again VAR could potentially decide a game.Will Davie bring Anderson on before we go behind.Your guess is as good as mine ‍�.Mon the Lions. .

Criminal just Criminal, no other word to describe that.Including the pen and a few other chances to put this game to bed.Yeh,I'd have taken a point pre match,but feel Dick Turpin couldn't have done a better job.Daylight robbery imo.Hearts definitely got away with one there.9mins injury time?‍�.OK will calm down.Were 3rd,but suspect we'll end up 4th after the Sheep game against the Arabs tonight due to goal difference unless United do us a favour.Need a drink after that to quell my dissapointment,where I shouldn't have had to.Frustrated.

Wasn’t there and didn’t watch it (don’t even know if it was available to watch) - however… while a point was a decent result on the face of it, it sounds like we have shot ourselves in the foot again ably assisted by bad refereeing decisions (again).

We go 1 up; we get a pen and they get reduced to 10 but we fail to score the pen (saved by Gordon I believe, but still, we fail to score far too many times from 12 yards). There is 15 mins plus injury time left against 10 men and we are leading 1-0 and still we fail to see it out. Sounds like we should have had more pens - possibly 1 in the first half for a foul on Devs? And 1 just before the equaliser but VAR upheld the ruling on the pitch each time…. Michael Stewart on Radio was my source for this info.

However, how many times are we going to fail to capitalise on our opponents getting players sent off? How many times are we going to concede late injury time goals?

Whinge over, 7 points from the last 9 is excellent, well done lads. Let’s get things sorted out and get ripping into teams after the World Cup.

Regardless of the many pontifications on many forums including ours,we did shoot ourselves in the foot.But as you say 7 points from these last 3 games is more than I expected. So plaudits in the grand scheme of things..On the other hand,3 from Ibrox and 3 from today as well as the points we should have got leaves a gutting feeling for me.Dont want to hark on about what might have beens,but let's dream for a moment,where would we be.Sorry the drink is starting to kick in..

Yeh,called that unfortunately. The sheep courtesy of a pen consignes us to 4th.All ifs and buts.But going into the WC break,il take being the best team in the Lothians again.Ridicoulos I know but those ifs and buts would have made it so interesting. My mid season review is coming.Long way to go but would have bitten your hand off for the position we're in..

Another scunner chucking 2 points away, same as Ibrox, again you'd have taken it before the game but ffs, we were so close to all 3pts.

Anyway, 7 pts from our last 3 games is a good haul going into the break, we'd have all been delighted with that, and i doubt any of us would've seriously been thinking we'd get it, 4 or 5 would've been my best prediction.

Thought Konolov had a good game, solid and even better than Shamal at his kicks and punches clearing the ball out of his box, really happy having him as our No2 when Shamal isn't 100%, pity we didn't play him against Celtic.

Really don't know why we didn't get Anderson on, we were creating a lot of chances in the 2nd half, particularly with the introduction of Bahamboula, him and Nouble are just too much of a handful for most Premiership sides to deal with, Anderson in the middle would've had a few good chances, particularly the one Pitts squandered.

Auld Nick, if you fancy watching the full game it's on bbc alba on the iplayer.

Oh and what a goal by St Kelly, stunning.

Okay,after seeing the highlights & analysis & then the entire second half…

Not sure what Michael Stewart was talking about on radio, I got the impression that the foul on Devlin was in the box but clearly it was in our half…however how Cochrane wasn’t sent off is beyond me. That would have made it 11v9.

Also, the foul on Noobs was outside the box but was still a foul… that said, why not kill the time in the corner? (I hate that “tactic” but it’s what he should have done). Was it a handball by Forest as they broke to score? Couldn’t tell from what I saw, so if the cameras didn’t catch it then it couldn’t be reviewed properly.

And in the interest of being fair, Hearts could easily have had a pen in each half for fouls, possibly 2 more as Shinnie got away with the ball hitting his arm twice, at least one of which was more of a pen than Fitz v Aberdeen.

Why were we so bad against 10 men? It looked like Hearts had the extra man. That said we still should have seen the game out.

Why did Pitts not strike first time when Noobs set him up? Instead he took a touch, allowed 3 defenders to get back and had his eventual shot blocked. So poor decision making again.

So in the end the VAR decisions probably evened themselves out over the game but the amount they are getting wrong is VARcical.

Reckon if we had put Anderson on instead of Pitts we'd have got another goal, Nouble and Bahamboula were destroying them down the wing, getting balls across into the box, Anderson would've buried that one Pitts made a hash of.

Ultimately 3 things fecked us, 2 of them our own doing, they should've been reduced to 9 men which would have made a big difference, but the 2 we had control of was Kelly missing the pen, and Obileye side footing the clearance low on the ground, instead of volleying it into the stand. If Kelly is hitting it down the middle he should be lifting it above the keepers trailing legs, actually noticed he did the same in his pen against Aberdeen, but got away with it. Thought at the time he was lucky and should be lifting it. Gordon is an excellent keeper and good at pens, quite an imposing figure, he did us in the pen shoot out in the cup last season. He'd also have studied Kelly's recent pens, and saw his last one was straight down the centre, he was looking back as he dived and got it with his foot. Not sure if Kelly is scared to put height on it after blasting one over the bar against St Mirren, but any height at all either down the centre or over by the posts and you're scoring, not matter how good the keeper is.

Think someone else has to take them now, with VAR the odds have increased on us getting them, so we need a good pen taker that will score them, that's the St Mirren game and Hearts game it has cost us points. Shinnie is good at them, Obileye has power to take a good one too, if he just takes them properly, no nonsense approach and just blasts them, or give Anderson a go, but then we'd need to actually play him so he's on the pitch. Or even young St Kelly, that was a cracking strike he scored with, and is meant to hit a good free kick.

I'd have taken a draw before the game but came out of the stadium disappointed with the way it happened. Mind you after watching the Sportscene highlights I don't feel as bad because I think we got away with a few too.
I think the problems with VAR just confirm what we all know - our refs are no very good although Craig Napier has looked ok in both of the games we've had him this season. The other one was at St Mirren. It was John Beaton in the VAR room - enough said.

I thought the team played well today. They looked hungry and kept nicking in and pinching balls from the Hearts players' feet. The only way they could handle Nouble was by fouling. Nice to see Stephen Kelly get his goal. He took it well.
I'd liked to have seen Anderson on too. Maybe if we had been chasing the game instead of being in the lead was a factor in choosing Pittman over him.

I think on balance we have done ok from VAR. I'm not a supporter of it but I feel we are getting some big decisions that we wouldn't have got normally because we are wee Livi and rarely got the benefit of the doubt unlike the bigger teams with noisy fans.

In saying that how on earth could anybody look at footage of that tackle on Devlin and wave play on. It deserves a retrospective red card but I won't hold my breath on that one.

It's a very competitive league so to be going into the break in 4th place is brilliant. Let's hope we carry on as we have so far. One wee advantage we have is that we've already played both halves of the OF whereas most teams apart from Hearts haven't. We've also got that game in hand though Celtic at Parkhead is a big ask. Maybe they will rest some players now that they have such a gap at the top. Can only hope.

Mon the Livi.

Good thing about VAR is the on field officials aren't being influenced by the bigger team's crowds, they have the luxury of just ignoring things now and leaving it to VAR officials to notify them of any big incidents. Which is just as well because Hearts fans were roaring 'hand ball' for every single ball that went into our box. It Just got silly with them.

The bad thing (or one of the bad things) about VAR, is it isn't picking up every big incident, Nicky Devlin's assualt, and possible hand ball on Forrest leading to their goal, it did look like it hit his hand to me on a replay i've seen.

The pen we did get wasn't claimed for by Nouble because  he's that used to being fouled like that and getting nothing, funny how Sportscene pundits made more of Shankland being used to being held, it happens to Joel all over the pitch. Pretty standard thing what Shankland got, you see every teams' defenders doing that when defending balls into the box, if they want to stop it they'll have to start giving pens for it, and give them consistently to every team across the board, every time it happens.

Talking about shirt pulling and being held, one offence that seems to be universally allowed is holding a player's arm. Our guys do it and opposition players do it. It is often more of an imposition than a tug on a shirt. It is similar to defenders ushering a ball over the line. It is obstruction elsewhere on the pitch.

Funny old game.

Yeah the  push on MacKay by Devlin, and nudge on Nouble just before tha ball was played up to Forrest leading to the Hearts goal, those happen all the time too, just enough to knock players off balance without knocking them down in the box. Well unless you're Goss, Duk or Boyle.

The hand ball on Shinnie not being given as a pen was the correct decision imo though, his arm wasn't raised above his head and was close in front of his body, hitting his elbow, if his arms were out from his side or raised higher than his head then i could see it given, but not every hand ball is a penalty. Even though some of the ones being given are still not right, and accidental ball to hand, but it's all about the position of your arms now.

I agree that the Shinnie “handballs” were right not to be given but neither should the one against Fitz last week and yet it was given.

What is clear is what I have said from the outset, our refs are incompetent and sticking an incompetent in front of a screen doesn’t change anything.

Yeah i said that too, but i think the difference is whether your arm is in front of your body or right at your side, as opposed to out from your body, above your head with raised arms, or also stretched out with clear space from your body.

Shinnie's looked as if his arms were bent and tight into his body in front of him, it was hitting his body if it didn't hit his elbow.

Fitzwater's was a stretched arm out touching the opposition player, fending him off, and the ball comes down onto his arm. If it hits your arm like that it's going to be given.

Did you see the one Ross County got? O’Reilly’s arm was bent and tight to his body. Not quite as tight as Shinnie’s but a ridiculous decision nonetheless.

Yeah his arm is at his side, and he pulls it up trying to get it out of the way when the ball flicks up, different from Shinnie's where it was hit straight at him and his arms were in front of his body, but still a ridiculous decision.

The one Forrest got away with though is a clear hand ball, hitting his hand and him running on to hit the ball into our box. Apparently Forrest told Nouble it hit his hand too.

Dunno why Nouble didn't take the ball into the corner too, got a bit carried away running into the box and trying to get another goal when we didn't need one at that stage of the game, must've only been about 30 seconds left to play for him to just wind down the clock. Not like us at all to get caught out like that in our game management, maybe with us having the extra man it worked against us, being more attack minded.