I'm not doubting the quality of our squad, it's certainly better than what we've had in recent seasons when we've been in this league. In my opinion though, a lot of fans are wearing rose tinted spectacles because we've started so well but we will hit a rough patch and it'll be interesting to see what the thoughts are then of this team.
+5
Auld Nick
Afro
Durnford
LiviLion
Liviforever
9 posters
Championship Expectations (2017/18)
LiviCub- Posts : 804
Join date : 2014-06-27
Age : 30
Location : Livingston
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
From what I've seen of Hoppy and most of the players still here from last season they don't fall apart when they lose a game or 2. They've already shown character in games to win the league, and have beaten the teams we have lost to in the past when the pressure was on.
Even after being pegged back against Dumbarton they won, and that wouldn't have happened a couple of seasons ago.
We didn't actually start so well either, 2 draws and a defeat in our first 3 games. We've gradually got ourselves on a good run and up into 4th place, QoS started well, but have now stumbled the same as they did last season. Dunfermline started well too but are only 1 point ahead of us now, if anything we've shown a steady rise after a stumbling start.
I'm not getting carried away though, my expectation was mid table and we'd be comfortably away from the bottom 2 spots. We'll see where we are at the halfway mark before my expectations will be raised, but I do think we could be dark horses this season, looking forward to the 2nd quarter to see how we do.
Even after being pegged back against Dumbarton they won, and that wouldn't have happened a couple of seasons ago.
We didn't actually start so well either, 2 draws and a defeat in our first 3 games. We've gradually got ourselves on a good run and up into 4th place, QoS started well, but have now stumbled the same as they did last season. Dunfermline started well too but are only 1 point ahead of us now, if anything we've shown a steady rise after a stumbling start.
I'm not getting carried away though, my expectation was mid table and we'd be comfortably away from the bottom 2 spots. We'll see where we are at the halfway mark before my expectations will be raised, but I do think we could be dark horses this season, looking forward to the 2nd quarter to see how we do.
Durnford- Posts : 1726
Join date : 2014-10-23
Interesting how things change. So far this season I've not seen anything to particularly worry me (other how could we possible end up losing to St Mirren when against ten men for two thirds of the game).
What happens during the winter transfer window is going to be key; I don't think there's much doubt that some teams may come in with cash offers for some of our players and looking at the size of our gate is it something we're really going to be able to refuse?
Of course this will need to be balanced against the difference prize money for potentially finishing a couple of spots down the league.
If we can keep the team together I do think we've got a strong chance of making the play-off this season - although looking at the current gulf between Premiership and Championship I cant see any of the play-off sides making it through a double header and we are a lot more settled than at the beginning of the season.
Also its interesting to note that the much vaulted Andy Ryan is spending most of his time sitting on the bench at Dunfermline
What happens during the winter transfer window is going to be key; I don't think there's much doubt that some teams may come in with cash offers for some of our players and looking at the size of our gate is it something we're really going to be able to refuse?
Of course this will need to be balanced against the difference prize money for potentially finishing a couple of spots down the league.
If we can keep the team together I do think we've got a strong chance of making the play-off this season - although looking at the current gulf between Premiership and Championship I cant see any of the play-off sides making it through a double header and we are a lot more settled than at the beginning of the season.
Also its interesting to note that the much vaulted Andy Ryan is spending most of his time sitting on the bench at Dunfermline
orco- Posts : 1369
Join date : 2014-06-10
I'm wondering if it maybe wasn't actually the managers idea to get him. Or maybe they wanted to stop us buying him.Durnford wrote:Interesting how things change. So far this season I've not seen anything to particularly worry me (other how could we possible end up losing to St Mirren when against ten men for two thirds of the game).
What happens during the winter transfer window is going to be key; I don't think there's much doubt that some teams may come in with cash offers for some of our players and looking at the size of our gate is it something we're really going to be able to refuse?
Of course this will need to be balanced against the difference prize money for potentially finishing a couple of spots down the league.
If we can keep the team together I do think we've got a strong chance of making the play-off this season - although looking at the current gulf between Premiership and Championship I cant see any of the play-off sides making it through a double header and we are a lot more settled than at the beginning of the season.
Also its interesting to note that the much vaulted Andy Ryan is spending most of his time sitting on the bench at Dunfermline
Durnford- Posts : 1726
Join date : 2014-10-23
orco wrote:I'm wondering if it maybe wasn't actually the managers idea to get him. Or maybe they wanted to stop us buying him.
A reasonable thought but I'm not sure Dunfermline would have really looked at us as a potential threat - before the season started most were looking at us as potential straight back down.
That being said I seem to recall other Championship sides were also looking at him; like when we bought Alex Burns and then hardly plaid him.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
Aye they've done a Sevco on us and stopped us getting a useful striker rather than them actually needing him. Though they're struggling for goals since Cardle's been injured, they went from scoring for fun and being the top scorers in the league to 1 goal in 3 games. Certainty that wee shite Ryan will come on as sub and score against us on Sat though.
Like Durnford I've not seen any team we need to worry about, St Mirren have been a tough team to play but in both games I thought we looked quite comfortable, until we failed to defend a couple of free kicks into our box, and Thomson losing the ball inside our half leading to their opener, doubt any of that will happen again against them.
Really see no reason we can't secure a top 4 place, as long as we hold onto all our current players.
Like Durnford I've not seen any team we need to worry about, St Mirren have been a tough team to play but in both games I thought we looked quite comfortable, until we failed to defend a couple of free kicks into our box, and Thomson losing the ball inside our half leading to their opener, doubt any of that will happen again against them.
Really see no reason we can't secure a top 4 place, as long as we hold onto all our current players.
Durnford- Posts : 1726
Join date : 2014-10-23
Callum Carson wrote:@CallumCarson34 Oct 14
Livi end first quarter with same number of points and fewer goals conceded than at same stage last season - in a lower league. Incredible.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
Wasn't going to say anything till we got to the halfway mark, but I've been thinking for a wee while now that this team coming up into the Championship after winning League One reminds me of the team that came up into the SPL after winning the 1st Div. Everyone tipped us to straight back down but we quietly went about our business and finished the best team outside of the OF in 3rd place, I can really see parallels with that team and this one. Wouldn't surprise me if we shocked everyone and won promotion this season.
orco- Posts : 1369
Join date : 2014-06-10
Liviforever wrote:Wasn't going to say anything till we got to the halfway mark, but I've been thinking for a wee while now that this team coming up into the Championship after winning League One reminds me of the team that came up into the SPL after winning the 1st Div. Everyone tipped us to straight back down but we quietly went about our business and finished the best team outside of the OF in 3rd place, I can really see parallels with that team and this one. Wouldn't surprise me if we shocked everyone and won promotion this season.
Steady on there LfL.
I'll settle for survival and aim for the play offs. Thinking about winning the league makes ma heid dizzy.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
orco wrote:Liviforever wrote:Wasn't going to say anything till we got to the halfway mark, but I've been thinking for a wee while now that this team coming up into the Championship after winning League One reminds me of the team that came up into the SPL after winning the 1st Div. Everyone tipped us to straight back down but we quietly went about our business and finished the best team outside of the OF in 3rd place, I can really see parallels with that team and this one. Wouldn't surprise me if we shocked everyone and won promotion this season.
Steady on there LfL.
I'll settle for survival and aim for the play offs. Thinking about winning the league makes ma heid dizzy.
Or go up through the play offs, either one would do me.
Long way to go yet and even if we fell away and came 5th or 6th I still would be happy with the players and management, we're punching well above our financial weight this season and as was Hoppy's pre season goal, finishing 8th is about the best we should be hoping for given our budget. But we're far better than that and look capable of pulling off a massive shock this season.
Ever the optimist i'm going for a top 4 finish and depending on where we are by Jan, even possibly challenging for promotion. It's an exciting season for Livi that's for sure.
Auld Nick- Posts : 5022
Join date : 2014-07-25
Age : 62
Location : Livingston
What happened to low key, flying beneath the radar?
Just glad the team mantra hasn't changed. Survival first, then anything else is a bonus. The points tally we have just now is probably about half way to survival, so we are ahead of schedule; but we will inevitably hit a blip at some point; we reacted well to those last year, it remains to be seen how we will react to them this year.
Just glad the team mantra hasn't changed. Survival first, then anything else is a bonus. The points tally we have just now is probably about half way to survival, so we are ahead of schedule; but we will inevitably hit a blip at some point; we reacted well to those last year, it remains to be seen how we will react to them this year.
Durnford- Posts : 1726
Join date : 2014-10-23
I've actually been surprised by the lack of real quality in the opposition; the likes of Morton and Falkirk for example have been bogie teams for us just recently; Dundee United really lacked any form of quality at all.
However the blip, as Bertie says, in previous years may have been partially due to the injuries and suspensions building up during the winter period (fortunately we had a larger squad than pretty much any other team last season - not so this) and the poor state of our pitch really cost us a few points last year.
Hopefully the team's improved fitness will help against the injuries question and maybe, just maybe, the question of the pitch has been resolved.
Time will tell.
However the blip, as Bertie says, in previous years may have been partially due to the injuries and suspensions building up during the winter period (fortunately we had a larger squad than pretty much any other team last season - not so this) and the poor state of our pitch really cost us a few points last year.
Hopefully the team's improved fitness will help against the injuries question and maybe, just maybe, the question of the pitch has been resolved.
Time will tell.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
Bertie Bassett wrote:What happened to low key, flying beneath the radar?
Just glad the team mantra hasn't changed. Survival first, then anything else is a bonus. The points tally we have just now is probably about half way to survival, so we are ahead of schedule; but we will inevitably hit a blip at some point; we reacted well to those last year, it remains to be seen how we will react to them this year.
Doubt Hoppy or any of our players will be going about saying this, and I wouldn't be saying it on any other forum either, nobody is taking us seriously still, even sitting 2nd in the league and being the form team hasn't raised our profile any. In media reports it was all about how poor Utd were, rather than how we made them look so poor. But hey, everyone we've played has been the same so long may it continue, if nobody is looking at us that closely our job will be made that bit easier.
I was actually surprised reading a Dumbarton player saying he played against us last season at Brechin and didn't expect us to play how we did against Dumbarton, surely their manager will have watched us and seen how we play, we've played the same direct way hitting long balls up the pitch all season.
It can all change in the next quarter right enough but I just get the feeling this team under Hoppy is a bit special, and we will be pretty consistent all season.
Durnford- Posts : 1726
Join date : 2014-10-23
Liviforever wrote:Bertie Bassett wrote:What happened to low key, flying beneath the radar?
Just glad the team mantra hasn't changed. Survival first, then anything else is a bonus. The points tally we have just now is probably about half way to survival, so we are ahead of schedule; but we will inevitably hit a blip at some point; we reacted well to those last year, it remains to be seen how we will react to them this year.
Doubt Hoppy or any of our players will be going about saying this, and I wouldn't be saying it on any other forum either, nobody is taking us seriously still, even sitting 2nd in the league and being the form team hasn't raised our profile any. In media reports it was all about how poor Utd were, rather than how we made them look so poor. But hey, everyone we've played has been the same so long may it continue, if nobody is looking at us that closely our job will be made that bit easier.
I was actually surprised reading a Dumbarton player saying he played against us last season at Brechin and didn't expect us to play how we did against Dumbarton, surely their manager will have watched us and seen how we play, we've played the same direct way hitting long balls up the pitch all season.
It can all change in the next quarter right enough but I just get the feeling this team under Hoppy is a bit special, and we will be pretty consistent all season.
There does seem to be a real team spirit with no one player out for themselves (might be why Joe Thomson didn't stay). If that can be maintained then the team will continue to play as a cohesive unit and, with Halkett as the team captain, who can tell how far we can go.
Most will probably agree that we are presently punching above our weight but there's a whole lot to be said about confidence. If anyone wants an example just look at how far Lithgow has progressed - this time last season I questioned whether he was even Div 1 standard; I don't think I've ever seen such an improvement in any player.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
Yeah the one game we really fell apart was St Mirren at home, and Lithgow wasn't playing. Jacko was put in besides Gallagher and Halkett and we conceded 2 goals from free kicks into our box. That might be down to Jacko playing in a back 3 too right enough but he played alongside Lithgow and Halkett as part of a back 3 the game before that one and we beat Morton 2-0.
Lithgow has been outstanding this season, doesn't just boot the ball anywhere to clear it either, he plays some good long balls to set up attacks.
Lithgow has been outstanding this season, doesn't just boot the ball anywhere to clear it either, he plays some good long balls to set up attacks.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
18 points from the first quarter and we're only 1 point down from how we started that one. So a win against Brechin would put us a point ahead of where we were after 2 games for the 2nd quarter. If we could match that first 9 games tally or even come close to it then I reckon we'd be well on track to a top 4 finish.
Afro- Posts : 677
Join date : 2014-06-14
If we reach 30 points by the New Year I'll be ecstatic with that. Would give us a very healthy platform to kick on in the second half of the season and aim a wee bit higher.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
4 points from our first 3 games in the 2nd quarter, so still only 1 point behind our 1st quarter's tally at the same stage.
Huge game against QoS in 3 weeks time, our next league game if the St Mirren one isn't rearranged midweek before that. They've won their last 3 games and are only 1 point behind us now, so a defeat could see us drop out of the top 4 into 5th place and a win would give us some breathing space again.
All very tight up in the top half of the table, this 2nd quarter is going to be really tough.
Huge game against QoS in 3 weeks time, our next league game if the St Mirren one isn't rearranged midweek before that. They've won their last 3 games and are only 1 point behind us now, so a defeat could see us drop out of the top 4 into 5th place and a win would give us some breathing space again.
All very tight up in the top half of the table, this 2nd quarter is going to be really tough.
Afro- Posts : 677
Join date : 2014-06-14
Presuming our form doesn't fall off a cliff between now and New Year, my main concern going into 2018 is the left hand side of midfield. After a slow start, Penrice has developed into a really neat player who's integral to how this team play; it pains me to say it but I really have no confidence in Longridge stepping into that role, just doesn't look anywhere near the player Penrice is in any aspect. The only other options out there are either Cadden or Knox - and I'm not confident in either's defensive capabilities, particularly if we were facing a Dunfermline or Inverness again.
I hope working with this team and under Hopkin, getting a regular run of games, is enough to convince Penrice as a player to stay; Partick's form though is horrendous, and they are loaded with injuries. With his loan up in January it's difficult to see him returning given the circumstances at present.
I hope working with this team and under Hopkin, getting a regular run of games, is enough to convince Penrice as a player to stay; Partick's form though is horrendous, and they are loaded with injuries. With his loan up in January it's difficult to see him returning given the circumstances at present.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
Dunfermline only threatened down our right hand side so McMillan would still nullify that. Mulraney wasn't that great a threat with his final ball, I think we'd still cope without Penrice. Will be sorry to see him go though, he's a cracking player.
Auld Nick- Posts : 5022
Join date : 2014-07-25
Age : 62
Location : Livingston
Penrice should be our number 1 target in January whether that is to extend his loan or sign him.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't McMillan only on loan to January too?
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't McMillan only on loan to January too?
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
According to their team's fans on P&B Partick Th are likely to want Penrice back but Motherwell have several players in McMillan's position, ahead of him, so we'll probably be able to extend his loan deal for the rest of the season.
I think Penrice's contract is up at the end of the season though so if they don't extend it we should def be in for him.
I think Penrice's contract is up at the end of the season though so if they don't extend it we should def be in for him.
Auld Nick- Posts : 5022
Join date : 2014-07-25
Age : 62
Location : Livingston
We should offer him a PCA on the basis that he'll get regular games for us.
Liviforever- Posts : 8453
Join date : 2014-06-10
Location : Livingston
Afro wrote:If we reach 30 points by the New Year I'll be ecstatic with that. Would give us a very healthy platform to kick on in the second half of the season and aim a wee bit higher.
You doing cartwheels then Afro, bang on 30 points at the halfway stage.
So that's 18 points from the 1st quarter and 12 points from the 2nd, I think we need to get at least 12 points from the 3rd to stay in the top 4, maybe even slightly more. Tough stage of the season though, squad size comes into it more, with injuries kicking in, we could do with a couple more loan deals, or signing a player or two (no easy task when other teams can out bid us). Wee Knoxy might get some games too though, he's not had many so far.
Afro- Posts : 677
Join date : 2014-06-14
Liviforever wrote:Afro wrote:If we reach 30 points by the New Year I'll be ecstatic with that. Would give us a very healthy platform to kick on in the second half of the season and aim a wee bit higher.
You doing cartwheels then Afro, bang on 30 points at the halfway stage.
So that's 18 points from the 1st quarter and 12 points from the 2nd, I think we need to get at least 12 points from the 3rd to stay in the top 4, maybe even slightly more. Tough stage of the season though, squad size comes into it more, with injuries kicking in, we could do with a couple more loan deals, or signing a player or two (no easy task when other teams can out bid us). Wee Knoxy might get some games too though, he's not had many so far.
Yes LF, delighted that we've hit 30 points by the halfway stage - given that that total is more than what we accrued in 2014/15, and 1 less than 2015/16, it's a credit to what Hopkin and this squad of players has achieved. Next target IMO is 40 points, that should be enough to miss out on the relegation play-off; the only sides to hit 40 points or above were Cowden (40, 2013/14) and Airdrie (42, 2008/09 and 40, 2006/07).