Rankine v Nixon: The fall Out.

Brilliant, going bottom of the league then hit with a 5 points deduction for failing to advise the SPFL on unpaid taxes on players wages.

Just made a difficult task near impossinle, and we've still got Rankine's hearing to come.

Livingston pleaded guilty to breaches of SPFL Rules E20, E22 and E29, having failed to advise the SPFL that it had been in default of its tax obligations in relation to payments made to players.

This meant that Livingston had been able to register professional players in registration periods when it otherwise would not have been able to do so.

As a result, the club were deducted five points in the SPFL Championship with immediate effect and were fined £10,000.

SPFL Chief Executive Neil Doncaster commented: “The tax default and reporting rules are an integral part of maintaining a fair league competition.”

Read more at http://spfl.co.uk/news/article/livingston-charged-by-spfl/#H2J1yR9aJYBoDHY0.99

We're completely and utterly fucked. Players and management need to grow some balls to get us out this. Would be something else if we managed to escape this. Need to get behind the team massively.

Still got Rankine's hearing over not advising them on having interest in other clubs. This is a nightmare of a week, going bottom of the league, being hit with a points deduction, and still got another hearing on Fri.

Compounded to us not scoring goals and on a terrible run of not winning and losing games.

If we don't get any more points deducted we'll consider ourselves lucky, then just the Rankine v Nixon court case to worry about.

Hopefully the gives the players a cause to step up their game and unites them to getting us out of this mess on the pitch.

So does this mean that Bollan etc were lying when they said they never received these payments? What a complete mess and from where I am sitting Nixon is the one who has been the architect, and as usual he is the one who gets off scot free, and the fans suffer again. I assume that HMRC will now pursue these ex employees to recoup their unpaid tax?
If Nixon wins his court case we should tell him his cash is in the centre circle of the pitch and throw a match in it as he enters the stadium. This man has done more damage than the mad Italian and his predecessors.
I really do not know how much more of this crap I can take. Could well be an extra £200 in my holiday budget next year.

So, has the embargo been lifted, was it not imposed because of the tax stuff?

Looks even worse when you have a look at the league table now and see us on just 4 points, 7 behind Cowden and 8 behind Alloa. Feck we're screwed, it took us 14 games to get 9 points and now with a points deduction we've to make up 7 points to catch the play off spot..

We are absolute certainties to get relegated. There are no circumstances that I can foresee where we'd put in enough quality performances that would see us safe. This group of players have shown no battling qualities that would be needed to get out of this type of mess, and the same goes for McGlynn. And I'm sorry lads and lassies, but we're utterly fucking deluding ourselves talking of embargoes being lifted etc - we have NO MONEY.

Seriously - switch the fucking lights off. The clubs fucked, run into the ground by charlatans galore and a truly apathetic support.

Edited to say, this is all before Friday and whatever is going to go down then. I think the death of the club is probably the only thing that could make me feel worse.

I agree the chances of avoiding relegation look remote now, they did leaving Central Park on Saturday too.

At the start of the season I thought crunch time would come at the end of the season with the "community club" option being touted after the owners recouped some money from away gates.

No idea where we are now, Friday may or may not be crucial, hard to tell with nothing coming from the club.

No option but to keep supporting the team and wait and see.

Dunno about the rest of you, but I'm absolutely fucking scunnered with this club. It seems like we are a perpetual target for crooks, shysters, and downright fannoids galore. I feel quite daft now looking back at the optimism I shared when McDoog et al took over the reins after Massone - I genuinely didn't think things would be back to this way. To be honest I don't see any way out of this, on or off the pitch. We've got a team of players who look mediocre, and like they don't give a flying fuck. A manager who is tactically inept and by all accounts commands no respect from the players. We play in a white elephant of a stadium in front of meagre, dwindling crowds, with little to no atmosphere. There's no discernible engagement between the club and the supporters, let alone the club and the wider community in West Lothian. We're fucking skint and have a frankly eye-watering level of debt with no assets and little income.

I do think senior football is a goer in West Lothian, as we do have a hardcore support of 600-700 which is higher than a lot of the teams in Leagues 1 and 2. I just can't see it carrying on in our current incarnation, sadly.

In all honesty the points deduction is irrelevant; if we can't overhaul it we deserve to go down. We should be good enough to finish more than 5 points above the relegation play-off; obviously at the present moment we are the worst team in the league but we have 22 games to sort that out.

I really do not want to see the team I grew up watching just die off like this but it is inevitable with the crowd size at the tiny amount compared to how big the stadium really is.
If worst comes to worst I hope we Livi fans can still keep the little community we've made for ourselves together as opposed to all of us leaving to watch other teams and what not. Perhaps the 600-700 "diehard" fans can migrate to Livi united junior club, at least it's still a Livingston team. That is of course Livi FC don't pull a sevco and we can continue on as usual (sort of).

This comes across morbid as hell and very defeatist, and Livingston has had quite a few "it's all over, game over" moments in the past. But I really don't see the boardroom mafia wishing to keep Livi trodding along. I just want to gauge what people have as a contingency plan if the doors finally shut for good.

The points deduction doesn't worry me anywhere near as much as the reported fine of £10k which we don't have and will result in us getting dumped out of the league.

Inanimate Carbon Rod wrote:I really do not want to see the team I grew up watching just die off like this but it is inevitable with the crowd size at the tiny amount compared to how big the stadium really is.
If worst comes to worst I hope we Livi fans can still keep the little community we've made for ourselves together as opposed to all of us leaving to watch other teams and what not. Perhaps the 600-700 "diehard" fans can migrate to Livi united junior club, at least it's still a Livingston team. That is of course Livi FC don't pull a sevco and we can continue on as usual (sort of).

This comes across morbid as hell and very defeatist, and Livingston has had quite a few "it's all over, game over" moments in the past. But I really don't see the boardroom mafia wishing to keep Livi trodding along. I just want to gauge what people have as a contingency plan if the doors finally shut for good.    

Aren't Gretna 2008 about because fans of Gretna got together to make up a team? Now they're in the Lowland League (which now has play offs to get up to the SPFL). Doubt we would do something like that and really hope we never have to find out, but it can be done...

I didn't have much time to post when the news broke as I was in work, but I've had a bit of time to think about everything.

As has been said, the points deduction isn't really anywhere near as serious as the 10K fine. Any amount of money for clubs at this level is hugely significant, but £10,000 isn't an amount of money which can be pulled for mid-air. I have a horrible feeling the court case on Friday will go against us as well, but not only, it'll also be a greater punishment than the one handed to us yesterday. These two, along with the £300K+ lawsuit with Nixon puts us in an absolutely deadly position. Friday will decide the future of this club for sure though - and that's if its not already broken enough. I believe our debt is almost at £2 million, so I see absolutely no positives here.

It's a really sad state of affairs though. Nobody seems to care about this club, all 3 major cases, each of which could see the end to our club, are completely and totally the doing of criminals battling their ego among each other. It seems like such a tragic loss of a football club, but that's the way this club is, and it only seems to be getting worse.

Personally I see no way of our survival in the Championship, but that's not massively significant given the circumstances here. Our major problems lie completely off the pitch. We have a poor squad and a poor management set-up. And please; let this finally be an end to the 'McGlynn out' patter. I don't want him in charge as much as any other Livingston supporter, and feel that he's beyond tactically inept, and stubborn. However, it costs money to dismiss a manager under contract - we absolutely cannot afford such payments. Ridiculously unnecessary. Consider the future of the club, a string of bad results and a relegation will hurt in the short-term, but losing Livingston Football Club will hurt for a lifetime. I'll go to all home games, and more away games and support the players, as they need it more than ever now. I might not particularly like our current squad, or many of the players as individuals, but I'm a Livingston fan, so I feel all supporters must make the effort to be more supportive than usual.

I'm very concerned and scared for the future of our club though. I've never been one to look at things so terrifyingly bleakly, but I honestly cannot see us escaping. The authorities are going to destroy us, and I don't think our club is strong enough to withstand this. One thing is for certain and that is that if we do pull through, fan/community ownership - whatever is certainly the way forward. Complete scum like Rankine and Nixon should be nowhere near this club, and it's about time we were in safe hands so the club can grow, an be here for future generations. There's serious potential here for a smashing football club, although I don't think it'll ever be realised, which I admit with huge regret and sorrow.

I've never been to a Raith away game but I was thinking about going on Sat to show support to the team and was hoping others would do the same, just to show them we care about our club and want them to unite with the fans and give it their all in games.

Like Lexi said, getting behind the team and supporting them is what's important now, all the other stuff about results etc is trivial in comparison. We need to show our backing and unite fans and players together in this. I just hope we get a break on Friday, we could do with something going our way to give us a lift.

Well there goes McGlynn's compensation package...

I now have no faith in this club but will forever continue to turn up to games and support the team until either myself or the club is six feet under. No danger, this is the most under-performing Livingston team we've had in a long time but now is their chance to prove us all wrong, shut us up when it comes to ranting on these forums and at least keep us in this league. Whatever happens after that? Who knows. But at least they should be able to look back and know that they done what they needed to do in terms of our league status.

A couple of things:

Firstly this is nowhere near as bad as when Massone was in charge; people have very short memories if they think it is.

I cannot understand why Nixon was ever allowed to hold such a senior position in the club; with a string of failed businesses and dodgy dealings that would make Arthur Daily blush, let alone Del Trotter, to give him un-reined control was the height of ineptitude. Unfortunately he seemed to command a position of trust within the trust (no pun intended) which meant he came "highly recommended".

Unfortunately we deserved the punishment, not for the dodgy dealing that Nixon entered into with the players bonuses (particularly bearing in mind that one of his chums is apparently a tax inspector), but for the fact that, having found out, we delayed notifying the authorities until all our signings had been completed. Unfortunately for that charge we can only admit our guilt.

McGlynn's in a real hole here; he cannot afford to leave the club in such a position as he'll never get another management position again - there's a load of better qualified managers on the proverbial scrap heap already and, often in life, you're only as good as your last appointment. Letting him go with a couple of months’ salary might be a negotiable option; truly we have absolutely no chance of making up the deficit with him in charge.

The players were good enough at the beginning of the season; there is the skill and potential there even though we've not shown it for more than two months. This can only be down to leadership; preparation and tactics. True; we've had injuries but then so has everyone else. It would be good to get a couple of player on loan but not the be all and end all. Pretty much all of our strikers have proved they can put the ball in the net in the right circumstance; unfortunately we’re not manufacturing that circumstance enough and when we are our strikers are not making use of it. That is for the management team to sort out but this team don’t have a clue where to start.

Unfortunately the Supporters Trust site was twinned to the LiviLions one which no longer works so we’ve no idea what’s happening there.

Not as bad as Massone? It wasn't until he left we found out just how bad off we were, and got hit with a two league demotion (same with Flynn tbh, it's when these feckers leave the hidden stuff becomes apparent), who know what this crowd are leaving behind, there is absolutely no communication or inside info telling us what's going on there. All we know is the next hearing is on Fri about Rankine and another possible punishment, and a court case is also looming. Along with the 2M in director loans. I'd say that was every bit as bad as when Massone near destroyed the club. We're teetering on the edge here.

I don't know what Rankine's end game is, sure as hell don't trust him.

Liviforever wrote:Not as bad as Massone? It wasn't until he left we found out just how bad off we were, and got hit with a two league demotion (same with Flynn tbh, it's when these feckers leave the hidden stuff becomes apparent), who know what this crowd are leaving behind, there is absolutely no communication or inside info telling us what's going on there. All we know is the next hearing is on Fri about Rankine and another possible punishment, and a court case is also looming. Along with the 2M in director loans. I'd say that was every bit as bad as when Massone near destroyed the club. We're teetering on the edge here.

I don't know what Rankine's end game is, sure as hell don't trust him.

Never said you had to trust him but he hasn't diconnected the power to "teach us a lesson"; failed to pay staff for x months in a row (and then blame differences in the Itallian banking system); hive players off to St Johnstone to teach them a lesson; sell our leading striker to Dundee and then magic away money; sell season tickets but put the money elsewhere for safe-keeping; dump the youth system; decommission the undersoil heating (gawd knows what happened to all the oil); fail to pay any of the suppliers/caterers etc.; sell off the sell on fee for Dorrins etc. have the highest turnover of managers in one year in the history of the club; leave unpaid bills for an edinburgh mansion and a somewhat damaged Jaguar; refuse to allow any of the player to attend the player of the year awards; say he "leant" £x millions to the club which strangely didn't appear in the books or financial records; fall out with just about anyone who questioned what was happening...

No; that was far worse and I'm only scratching the surface. I wouldn't buy a used car from Rankin but I'm not aware of him actually doing anything criminal?

Nothing on the OS from the club but here's a link to sky interviewing McDougall: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9579074

Livingston chairman Gordon McDougall has told Sky Sports News HQ that the club’s future is not in imminent danger, despite a five-point deduction and £10,000 fine for breaching SPFL tax regulations.

Liviforever wrote:Nothing on the OS from the club but here's a link to sky interviewing McDougall: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9579074

Livingston chairman Gordon McDougall has told Sky Sports News HQ that the club’s future is not in imminent danger, despite a five-point deduction and £10,000 fine for breaching SPFL tax regulations.

Well that's good news I suppose as far as it goes.

It seems the OS are happy enough to treat us like mushrooms.

Durnford wrote:

Liviforever wrote:Not as bad as Massone? It wasn't until he left we found out just how bad off we were, and got hit with a two league demotion (same with Flynn tbh, it's when these feckers leave the hidden stuff becomes apparent), who know what this crowd are leaving behind, there is absolutely no communication or inside info telling us what's going on there. All we know is the next hearing is on Fri about Rankine and another possible punishment, and a court case is also looming. Along with the 2M in director loans. I'd say that was every bit as bad as when Massone near destroyed the club. We're teetering on the edge here.

I don't know what Rankine's end game is, sure as hell don't trust him.

Never said you had to trust him but he hasn't diconnected the power to "teach us a lesson"; failed to pay staff for x months in a row (and then blame differences in the Itallian banking system); hive players off to St Johnstone to teach them a lesson; sell our leading striker to Dundee and then magic away money; sell season tickets but put the money elsewhere for safe-keeping; dump the youth system; decommission the undersoil heating (gawd knows what happened to all the oil); fail to pay any of the suppliers/caterers etc.; sell off the sell on fee for Dorrins etc. have the highest turnover of managers in one year in the history of the club; leave unpaid bills for an edinburgh mansion and a somewhat damaged Jaguar; refuse to allow any of the player to attend the player of the year awards; say he "leant" £x millions to the club which strangely didn't appear in the books or financial records; fall out with just about anyone who questioned what was happening...

No; that was far worse and I'm only scratching the surface. I wouldn't buy a used car from Rankin but I'm not aware of him actually doing anything criminal?

What youth system have we got just now?

Only way the undersoil heating gets put on is when we have a big crowd, if it still works then I dare say sevco, Hibs and Hearts games would be worth putting it on for. We've been lucky with the weather last season though, wasn't many really bad weekends for frost and don't think we got snow at all on a match day.

No bills are unpaid that we know of and no court cases from creditors/sheriff officers banging at the door but the SPFL hearings and Nixon court case is just as bad for putting the club in danger, maybe more long term but damaging just the same and this time it could be fatal. Can't see another group of investors wanting to come in and risk losing their shirts to save us. The incompetence is as bad, though maybe not the crookedness in selling off the silverware to grab every penny on the way out the door. That remains to be seen though as it's after they leave we find out the real damage.

Durnford wrote:

Liviforever wrote:Nothing on the OS from the club but here's a link to sky interviewing McDougall: http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9579074

Livingston chairman Gordon McDougall has told Sky Sports News HQ that the club’s future is not in imminent danger, despite a five-point deduction and £10,000 fine for breaching SPFL tax regulations.

Well that's good news I suppose as far as it goes.

It seems the OS are happy enough to treat us like mushrooms.

I think they've pulled up the drawbridge since the Cowden defeat. Facebook hasn't anything on it so the fans can't vent their anger about the game. Twitter has nothing on it, usually ask for tweets after a game. No statement coming from the OS either.

Liviforever wrote:What youth system have we got just now?

I believe we have the following youth teams:

1. Under 17's
2. Under 15's
3. Under 14's
4. Under 13's

Shame we don't still have Under 19's as I think it was an effective vehicle for creating the finished product. A lot of 17 year olds aren't good enough to step up to the development league but could be late developers - two more years on the "nursery slopes" could make all the difference.

Durnford wrote:

Liviforever wrote:What youth system have we got just now?

I believe we have the following youth teams:

1. Under 17's
2. Under 15's
3. Under 14's
4. Under 13's

Shame we don't still have Under 19's as I think it was an effective vehicle for creating the finished product. A lot of 17 year olds aren't good enough to step up to the development league but could be late developers - two more years on the "nursery slopes" could make all the difference.

Agreed.

I wonder how many will come from the U17's up to the reserves/development league, and how many potential new talents will be lost due to the U19's being scrapped.