Livi v Motherwell

Back to league business, and another home game for us, one we are very capable of winning and taking 3 pts.

The cup win against Premiership opposition is just what we needed to give us a lift going into this, after the disappointing way we lost to Aberdeen, Stryjek too will be brimming with confidence after his penalty saving heroics. Keaghan back in the squad, Shinnie back fit, and two good looking new signings, it's all coming together for us now.

Feeling confident going into this, mon Livi lets get that win.

Was just about to compose a snarky email complaining about lack of information on ST collection when the info appeared on Twitter…. Still bugs the butt off me that it goes on there before the official website gets it though.

Motherwell are definitely beatable but we need to have the right attitude & get in about them.

Think it will be similar to the St Mirren game. Two teams scrapping away for the points. Could go either way. Wonder how many yellow cards the referee has been instructed to give this week?

orco wrote:Think it will be similar to the St Mirren game. Two teams scrapping away for the points. Could go either way. Wonder how many yellow cards the referee has been instructed to give this week?

Yeah we are picking up a hell of a lot of bookings, and the opposition hardly getting any, wouldn't even say they're for dirty tackles. Motherwell are always a physical team against us. think it stems back from us being labelled a big physical team, so managers have their players psyched up for a battle, and they come at us hard. Motherwell are the worst for it though, and always get away with murder against us.

St Mirren players got several talking's to, and we got the first yellow card, for kicking the ball away, was an absolute certainty we'd get booked first too. At this rate we'll have a few players having to serve suspensions.

The plan is to get us relegated & then prohibit plastic pitches in the top flight.

14 cards in our last three games, just 1 in the four games before that. Something is def off about the amount of cards we're getting just now, esp when the three teams we were heavily booked against only got 1 card, for a blatant cynical foul stopping us breaking on them. Sevco got away with a few (as is expected at Ibrox), Aberdeen got away with everything we were being booked for, and same with St Mirren, the ref preferred just talking to them several times, to booking them.

I may be getting fecking paranoid, but it really seems like the aunts are against us. Not giving us a goal for a ball that was over the line against St Mirren isn't helping either.

Hopefully the momentum from the last couple of games carries on into this one.Not sure what the starting 11 will be,probably along the lines of last week,but with Davie you never know.We need to start putting points on the board and quickly.Tommorow gives us a decent opportunity to do so though I understand Well won't be here just to make up the numbers.Should be a decent crowd in and I really hope the Lions give us what we need.Last home game for a few weeks so cmon Livi,make it count .

Goes without saying - we need to win this - get our season going.
Well will not be pushovers , then its off to Fester Road - it would be good going there on a high.

Hmm - was going to wait a little while before posting , but i firmly believe my view will not change.

That was shocking - at times it looked like Martindale has lost the dressing room - he's shouting for the ball to go down the line and the players played back or across the park.

Players look shadows of their former selves , uncertain or unwilling to make a decision.

OK - Max fumbled at the 2nd - but where was everyone else ?? static / flat footed or just not good enough , too lazy etc etc.
We are cannon fodder unless there are big changes.

Max didn’t fumble the second, he made a good save but the only player to react was persistent fouler Grimshaw, he fouled every time he was involved in the game except when scoring. The ref was yet another inept buffoon who awards fouls against us for almost every collision & refuses to use the same standard against our opponents.

My assessment of the game… an almost perfect copy of the Aberdeen game. Deservedly 1 up at half time, caught cold at the start of the second half & late on, whilst wasting a few chances of our own in between. Devlin’s miss was pitiful.

Where the Aberdeen game gave me hope that we weren’t as bad as I had thought, this game tells me we have learned nothing in between & Martindale is being found out. Three games in a row now he has changed the shape of the team and we have conceded a goal after doing so.

Bailey brought nothing to the party today, we have let a better player who can actually deliver a dangerous cross go out on loan to Hamilton.

The plaudits for the record unbeaten run are a memory now, our form since then has been relegation form & I fully expect that to be the outcome.

We are not playing badly, we probably deserved 2 draws but we are losing these games & that is a major concern.

Yeah was a good save by Stryjek but we were caught cold in defence, and nobody reacted to clear it.

Also agree about these changes in defence, Martindale said in his post match interview against St Mirren that he was reluctant to make unforced defensive changes/substitutions, but that's twice he's done it, bringing Kelly on, moving Fitzwater to RB/RWB, and Devlin into midfield, and twice it has saw us concede a 2nd goal to lose the game. Bewildered as to why he's doing it to start with, confounded as it isn't even working.

We're playing well enough, even making some great attacking moves, but our finishing is really poor, and along with poor defending it's costing us games, and points. How the feck did Devlin manage to miss an open goal from 6 yards, would take some skill for him to do that deliberately, seemed easier to score than miss it.

The injuries just keep on coming too, Obileye and Sibbald will be massive losses if they're out next game.

Don't agree with Bertie about Bailey and Mullin though, bit unfair to judge Bailey on 2 games, one he did well in, and one he never did much, he's just in the door and should get better with games to gel with his team mates. Also Mullin wasn't that great in the run in last season either, and even his deliveries were poor. Plus i think Mullin going out has let Forrest shine, the both of them just didn't work playing together, and it ended up neither was particularly good. Forrest is looking a different player this season.

He did it in the cup against St Mirren too & we conceded the equaliser.

Bailey had a handful of good moments in his first game but offered nothing today. He’s young & inexperienced so hopefully will get better but I was more impressed by Harry in his fleeting 10 mins than by either of Bailey’s appearances.

Devlin is exciting going forward but his final ball & finishing prowess are what let him down. That said he hasn’t really gone on one of his rampaging runs so far this season, almost as if he’s holding himself back.

Holt & Shinnie impressed me today & some of our play is really good. We have been as good as our opponents for our last 3 games but have only won one of those games & that was on pens.

Max’s kicking needs to improve but some of our passing is also dodgy, the amount of times Jacko had space in front of him but the pass was straight at him or, even worse, behind him was ridiculous.

The players need to work on crossing, finishing & reacting.

I thought we deserved a draw today. It's just not happening for us. We are playing ok but losing dreadful goals.
Am I already sensing a wee lack of confidence creeping in? There were more side and back passes than I'd have liked today. Those are the "safe" passes but they don't do much in the way of producing goals. It was particularly annoying when time was running out and we were chasing a goal towards the end of the game. That's the time for all out attack on the opposition goal.
There was the usual play acting today by Motherwell and the referee falling for it. Yet we were often bundled off the ball and play was allowed to continue. I doubt it would have altered the score line but it is annoying.
Am I reading anything in to the fact that the BBC saw fit not to include our disallowed goal in their highlights earlier. I couldn't see what it was for at the time so was looking forward to seeing it on Sportscene. It's a conspiracy.

It was a “foul” by Sibbs in winning the ball back… it followed the pattern of most of our “fouls” in that there was nothing in it & had it been the other way it wouldn’t have been a foul.

The whistle went before Obileye shot though so technically it wasn’t a disallowed goal as play had officially stopped.

Sportscene also confirmed our appalling league form; going back into last season up to the 3 games of this season we have won only 9 of the last 48 points available. Anyone else with that record would be in danger of losing or already have lost their job.

Awfull,just bloody awfull.What do we have to do to to get at least a point on the board.To say I'm worried is an understatement. The fans are understandably angry and rightly so.Still early doors,but something has to change before we leave ourselves with a mountain to climb.Its just not good enough and the sooner Martindale realises this the better.Highlight of the day was the tribute to Steven Carrie,well done to both sets of supporters for a well deserved applause for a special guy.Wish I could add more comments but I'm just gutted as to how we contrive to fech it up regularly now.

Bertie Bassett wrote:It was a “foul” by Sibbs in winning the ball back… it followed the pattern of most of our “fouls” in that there was nothing in it & had it been the other way it wouldn’t have been a foul.

The whistle went before Obileye shot though so technically it wasn’t a disallowed goal as play had officially stopped.

Sportscene also confirmed our appalling league form; going back into last season up to the 3 games of this season we have won only 9 of the last 48 points available. Anyone else with that record would be in danger of losing or already have lost their job.

That's as may be but what was the foul that the ref thought he saw? That's why I'd like to have seen BBC footage of the incident. We certainly saw plenty of Motherwell attempts.

Bertie Bassett wrote:It was a “foul” by Sibbs in winning the ball back… it followed the pattern of most of our “fouls” in that there was nothing in it & had it been the other way it wouldn’t have been a foul.

The whistle went before Obileye shot though so technically it wasn’t a disallowed goal as play had officially stopped.

Sportscene also confirmed our appalling league form; going back into last season up to the 3 games of this season we have won only 9 of the last 48 points available. Anyone else with that record would be in danger of losing or already have lost their job.

You have to counter that with him getting us to a cup final and a top 6 finish, for a team on Livi's budget we over achieved last season. Far too simplistic to just look at stats for a bad period, and ignore the good period that got us up to 5th place and a cup final (pre split). Stats are great for making the point you want them to (the sportscene guys)

We're only 3 games into this season's league campaign, and we've played 2 top 4 teams (from last season, and prob this too), we haven't played that bad in our last 2 league games either, and fine lines between us getting something and nothing (Max with a howler, and Devlin missing an open goal), you could also look at the injuries, covid, and other problems we've had not having our best XI available, and everyone fully up to speed. But i doubt very much sportscene even know about that, or care, for doing a proper analysis.

We're certainly looking a lot better in league games than we did in our group cup games, and it wouldn't take much for us to start picking up points. Just have to look at St Johnstone last season to see how it can quickly change for a team, not a million miles away from things clicking.

What i would say about that ref, he only booked us once, and although it was the wrong decision, he later got another one wrong that should've been a booking for us, but just gave a foul. So at least he wasn't card happy like the last few refs we've had. I'd say one card was pretty fair for him, could've been a couple more, for both teams.

Thought stopping the game for Steven Carrie's 34th min applause was good on his behalf too, he joined in with the Motherwell players, and stopping play when Kelly and Stryjek collided. We've certainly had worse refs this season.

Okay i now feel dirty praising an official.

[quote="Liviforever"]What i would say about that ref, he only booked us once, and although it was the wrong decision, he later got another one wrong that should've been a booking for us, but just gave a foul. So at least he wasn't card happy like the last few refs we've had. I'd say one card was pretty fair for him, could've been a couple more, for both teams.

Thought stopping the game for Steven Carrie's 34th min applause was good on his behalf too, he joined in with the Motherwell players, and stopping play when Kelly and Stryjek collided. We've certainly had worse refs this season.

Okay i now feel dirty praising an official.  [/quote]

Aye and so you should.
It's not just about bookings. Giving the opposition fouls for throwing themselves down and not giving us fouls for being barged and tripped count as bad in my eyes. Granted we've had worse but the bar is very low when judging our officials.

orco wrote:

Liviforever wrote:What i would say about that ref, he only booked us once, and although it was the wrong decision, he later got another one wrong that should've been a booking for us, but just gave a foul. So at least he wasn't card happy like the last few refs we've had. I'd say one card was pretty fair for him, could've been a couple more, for both teams.

Thought stopping the game for Steven Carrie's 34th min applause was good on his behalf too, he joined in with the Motherwell players, and stopping play when Kelly and Stryjek collided. We've certainly had worse refs this season.

Okay i now feel dirty praising an official.  [/quote]

Aye and so you should.
It's not just about bookings. Giving the opposition fouls for throwing themselves down and not giving us fouls for being barged and tripped count as bad in my eyes. Granted we've had worse but the bar is very low when judging our officials.  

We've had Marv doing that for us for a few seasons too right enough, he's an old hand at 'buying fouls'. Amazes me how often a ref falls for it though, agree the Motherwell players were doing it a lot yesterday. And yep, we had players being barged over and not getting a foul, when it clearly was. It's not shoulder to shoulder when a Well player runs into you with a shoulder charge. The ref didn't seem to understand that though, which is surprising when he gave fouls so readily for Well players throwing themselves in front of ours to be 'knocked' over*.

There, feel better now slagging the ref off.

*there was one occasion, think it was Tony Watt, where he was sitting on the ground with his arms raised up looking shocked when the ref waved play on, ignoring his plea for a foul, that they'd been getting all game for that routine.

He should have booked Watt for his goal celebration; I dislike that happening but as the laws stand it should have been a booking.

The unbeaten run was unprecedented & yes we reached a cup final but we didn’t do ourselves justice in that final because the manager who presided over that incredible run in league & cup suddenly changed from playing to our strengths to trying to counter the oppositions strengths.

The fact remains that we are now on a shambolic run of results and nothing is being learned.

I watched the documentary on Liverpool yesterday, “The End Of The Storm” and during it Klopp made the following point… he basically said he takes the blame for defeats but credits the team for the wins. He takes the blame because he can only put it down to him failing to get his message across - whether in training or in team talks - some less experienced managers ought to take note of that.

For every St Johnstone successfully turning the corner there is a Hearts that are “too good to go down”.

Don't think we're too good to go down, it can easily happen, but from what i've seen in our last 3 games against fellow top flight teams, we're good enough to stay up. If we'd continued to play like we did in the cup group games then yes, i'd be deeply worried, i've seen enough in the Aberdeen, St Mirren cup game, and Motherwell, to know we aren't far away from getting points. And that we are getting better the more games we play.

Martindale pissing about with the defence around the 60 min mark is a red flag though, he needs to stop doing that, there's no benefit from it as we keep conceding goals that costs us getting anything.

I think if we can survive staying up this season we'll be a lot better equipped to have a good go at top 6 and even top 4 next season, we'll have gelled the big turnover in players and the loan ones will hopefully be back in Jan to push us on this season too. Like the reports i've read on Nouble, he's something we've not got in the team just now, and will add a bit of physique to our attack.  Provided we don't lose any good players like Sibbs and Forrest anyway.

I agree we are not playing badly but if that doesn’t change soon then the confidence & good play will disappear along with the points.

I had your view of it after the Aberdeen game, but we have now played two teams we need to be beating to be staying up, ok one of them was a cup tie that we managed to win on pens but we almost threw away the game because of the 60 minutes formation change, yesterday was just a complete replay of the Aberdeen game.

Failing to take chances & defensive lapses are a recipe for relegation.

Liviforever wrote:We've had Marv doing that for us for a few seasons too right enough, he's an old hand at 'buying fouls'. Amazes me how often a ref falls for it though, agree the Motherwell players were doing it a lot yesterday. And yep, we had players being barged over and not getting a foul, when it clearly was. It's not shoulder to shoulder when a Well player runs into you with a shoulder charge. The ref didn't seem to understand that though, which is surprising when he gave fouls so readily for Well players throwing themselves in front of ours to be 'knocked' over*.

There, feel better now slagging the ref off.

*there was one occasion, think it was Tony Watt, where he was sitting on the ground with his arms raised up looking shocked when the ref waved play on, ignoring his plea for a foul, that they'd been getting all game for that routine.

That's better Liviforever.  
I agree that Marv was good at getting non fouls (well he did come from Hibs where it is second nature)    but that too just proves the point that our refs are hopeless.

Bertie Bassett wrote:I agree we are not playing badly but if that doesn’t change soon then the confidence & good play will disappear along with the points.

I had your view of it after the Aberdeen game, but we have now played two teams we need to be beating to be staying up, ok one of them was a cup tie that we managed to win on pens but we almost threw away the game because of the 60 minutes formation change, yesterday was just a complete replay of the Aberdeen game.

Failing to take chances & defensive lapses are a recipe for relegation.

We struggled against Motherwell last season too right enough, seem to be as bad as Aberdeen for coming away with the 3 points in tight games at the TMA, and gubbing us at their own patch.

We seem to do far better against Hibs and Hearts, oh and Celtic are our bitches at the TMA, never beaten us here since we came up.