Raith v Livi

LiviCub wrote:It's getting beyond a joke now when we pick and choose when we want to turn up. How can we go from almost scoring in the first thirty seconds last week to not even forcing their keeper into a save today? Rank rotten. Don't believe it when people say we're ninth so we're bound to be low on confidence. This was a Raith team who's home form was atrocious before the game and their central defence almost completely crippled yet Craig Barr had the easiest ninety mins he'll ever get.

No communication, no urgency, no willpower to take the game into their own hands and try to control it. Hopkin has a player in Charlie Telfer who wants to do this but instead he keeps on starting Scott Pittman who has brought nothing for 90% of the season. Nobody can defend what I saw today and anyone who clapped that team off and agreed with Hopkin that they "tried their hardest" can go and support guff teams in the amateurs.

Why do that when they already support a guff team in the pros?

Reality check everyone; lower your expectations. The club is in decline & will remain so while we have a dwindling support (Livi til I die? Aye right, most of the folk that used to sing that have long since disappeared*); lack of leadership on & off the park & no funds to invest in the squad.

*It wasn't that long ago that folk on the old Livilions site were saying they would rather have a club at any level than no club at all. If you are still among that mindset then get behind the team & support them.

I just hope someone from the club is reading these sentiments from the supporters and passes them onto the people down there whove got us in this state.So full of optomism pre match and yet again Livi balls it up.It seems as though this team doesnt posess the abilty or guile to put together a wee run that last seasons end of termers did.Without being a purveyor of doom the looming spectre of possible relegation is definatly hanging over us wether we like it or not imo.Even the thought of finishing in the playoff fills me with dread having to possibly face either Ayr utd or Peterhead over two games because i reckon either of them would fancy their chances against this team.Anyways thanks for another depressing weekend Livi im sure Alloa will be shaking in their boots!.

Achilles wrote:Happy clappers on the stand and on Twitter need to have a word. They are starting to think this is acceptable which is laughable. To lose 2-0 to a very very weak raith squad who apparently had 3 of their 4 first team defenders out is a joke. 

First of all, our defence is just as bad as it was before the transfer window disputed the signings. Darren Cole is a fucking terrible footballer and always has been. Don't know what he was thinking for the first goal. 

Our strikers are absolutely woeful. "Ohhh but Buchanan was one of the top goalscorers last season". Piss off he's absolutely mince and he knows it, that's why he shites himself every time the balls near him. 
Jordan white couldn't hit snow off a dyke, we desperately need someone who can score a goal. 
I worked out today we have scored 4 goals in 2 and a half months. For the happy clappers to think this is acceptable in any profession is beyond me. Tits. 

The whole thing is pissing me off now, we are already down now, it's just a matter of 9th or 10th.

Defence is key
We lose goals we lose games
We have the fifth highest goals in the Championship so that means it's the goals we lose that is killing us not the goals we don't score
As for White he has been top scorer at every club he has played for the last three seasons so to blame him for Livi failings is not a creditable argument.

Not really Smithy, we've only scoed 2 goals from our last 8 games, even losing 1 goal is enough to kill us.

Tbh I thought we were the better team up to us giving them their opening goal with Cole arsing up with his pass back. We never actually worked their keeper but we did create chances and Buchanan should've at least hit the target when he was put clean through for a shot just inside the 18 yard box, but he dragged it wide. Raith were all long hits over the top and didn't look at all threatening until they hit a 35 yarder off the bar, even then it was a speculative effort that nearly got lucky. Cole gifting them killed us.

Even in the 2nd half we had a couple of decent chances to score but again our strikers couldn't hit a coo on the arse with a stick, can't remember us getting a shot on target for their keeper to save.

I was getting annoyed with the amount of times our players fell down looking for penalties when they had chances to get the ball over or have a shot, had they been briefed to fall down because Collum was officiating, thinking he'd give us a penalty, or have they all been getting coached from Mullen?

Kakay was a disappointment too, after being so promising as a wing player he hung back all the time and wasn't running forward looking to get up the wing, it was all being played down the right for Halkett.

As much as it was disappointing losing to Raith and being powder puff in front of goals, we're still only 5 points behind Dumbarton and they play Hibs next week and we play Alloa, so a win next week could put us 7 points clear of Alloa and only 2 points behind Dumbarton. I know the usual form is for us to balls it up but it is still there for us to get ourselves in a fight for 8th place.

Need to start hitting balls on target though and at least giving us a chance to get a goal.

Smithy wrote:

Achilles wrote:Happy clappers on the stand and on Twitter need to have a word. They are starting to think this is acceptable which is laughable. To lose 2-0 to a very very weak raith squad who apparently had 3 of their 4 first team defenders out is a joke. 

First of all, our defence is just as bad as it was before the transfer window disputed the signings. Darren Cole is a fucking terrible footballer and always has been. Don't know what he was thinking for the first goal. 

Our strikers are absolutely woeful. "Ohhh but Buchanan was one of the top goalscorers last season". Piss off he's absolutely mince and he knows it, that's why he shites himself every time the balls near him. 
Jordan white couldn't hit snow off a dyke, we desperately need someone who can score a goal. 
I worked out today we have scored 4 goals in 2 and a half months. For the happy clappers to think this is acceptable in any profession is beyond me. Tits. 

The whole thing is pissing me off now, we are already down now, it's just a matter of 9th or 10th.

Defence is key
We lose goals we lose games
We have the fifth highest goals in the Championship so that means it's the goals we lose that is killing us not the goals we don't score
As for White he has been top scorer at every club he has played for the last three seasons so to blame him for Livi failings is not a creditable argument.

Most successful clubs are built on getting defence right first, so in principle I agree with your first sentence. However, despite having the 5th highest goals for in the division your second sentence speaks volumes...we lose goals we lose games makes it clear that we are not scoring enough. We come up against teams that have scored less than us and conceded more than us.... Technically our defence is better than theirs and our attack is better than theirs (eg Dumbarton)..and what happens? We lose.

Where was the side that gave Hibs a run for their money last weekend? We clearly just raise our game against the big sides. Sometimes we don't even do that. Don't think there was a single player that put in a good shift yesterday. Absolute clanger by Cole, Halkett was brushed off the ball far too easily for their second. Buchanan frustrated everyone once again, Sheerin should be taking his place. I think a slower player who can hold onto the ball is slightly better than a man that can run but can do fuck all with the ball and shits himself every time a defender comes near him. The worst fans in the world strike again. People were getting on the player's backs at 1-0 down. The supportive chanting shown against Hibs was nowhere to be seen yesterday. Instead just a bunch of jumped up, testosterone filled youngsters having a pop at each other and acting the billy big baws. But hey, I won't stop going to the games, I am Livi 'till i die. Roll on Alloa.

Calling supporters who support their team through thick and thin “happy clappers” is infantile and demeaning. I work in the field of personal development and can tell you that shouting abuse at employees is a sure-fire way of demoting them even further – if your employer spoke to you the way some Livi fans shout at our players would you genuinely think “Wow, that really helped – having my (perceived) shortcomings yelled out for all to hear really makes me want to do a better job.” In practice, what happens is that constant negative comments undermine our confidence and has a negative impact on performance; if this is what the ‘boo boys’ want, then they’re going the right way about it. Regardless of what some may think, I believe that our players and manager try their best week-in and week-out – this may not (and often doesn’t) produce the results we all want, but accusing players of not trying or having a poor attitude is a ridiculous thing to suggest; these are professional people trying to build a career – why on earth would they not at least try to give 100% every week? Of course I’d like our team to do better, but this will only come through them (and Hopkin) recognising and building on what they do well, then providing praise, encouragement, guidance and support to help them develop on their strengths and any shortcomings. I choose to support my team regardless of how well or poorly they may have performed, if others make a different choice then that’s too bad, but please don’t use name-calling to try to influence how I choose to encourage our players.

LOL^^^
There's so much wrong with that post I can't be bothered challenging it.

yeh let's encourage the players for the good things they have done. 

Well done, you tied your shoelaces well. 
Brilliant, you managed to run in a straight line. 
Great job, you attempted to shoot. 

Get a grip, they are footballers no working in an office. I'm paying their wages, I'm paying money to go and watch their absolutely terrible performances, so I'll pretty much shout whatever I want.

AMF wrote:LOL^^^
There's so much wrong with that post I can't be bothered challenging it.

Do share. I'm sure that what you have to say is insightful, well-thought through and inspirational.

Bertie Bassett wrote:

LiviCub wrote:It's getting beyond a joke now when we pick and choose when we want to turn up. How can we go from almost scoring in the first thirty seconds last week to not even forcing their keeper into a save today? Rank rotten. Don't believe it when people say we're ninth so we're bound to be low on confidence. This was a Raith team who's home form was atrocious before the game and their central defence almost completely crippled yet Craig Barr had the easiest ninety mins he'll ever get.

No communication, no urgency, no willpower to take the game into their own hands and try to control it. Hopkin has a player in Charlie Telfer who wants to do this but instead he keeps on starting Scott Pittman who has brought nothing for 90% of the season. Nobody can defend what I saw today and anyone who clapped that team off and agreed with Hopkin that they "tried their hardest" can go and support guff teams in the amateurs.

Why do that when they already support a guff team in the pros?

Reality check everyone; lower your expectations. The club is in decline & will remain so while we have a dwindling support (Livi til I die? Aye right, most of the folk that used to sing that have long since disappeared*); lack of leadership on & off the park & no funds to invest in the squad.

*It wasn't that long ago that folk on the old Livilions site were saying they would rather have a club at any level than no club at all. If you are still among that mindset then get behind the team & support them.

Draws at home against the top three; impressive away performances against St Mirren and Queen of the South (both of a similar team to Raith); beating Raith 3-0 in the last meeting; and a Raith team with a poor home record going into the match. These easily trigger an expectation (which I don't think is a massive expectation) from fans that we would be able to at least compete and give them a game. But instead we fell completely flat.

Fans get frustrated because what we see one week, we expect something similar the next. The opposition can be different in how they play football but our game plan should've remained the same: attack from the start, be strong in midfield and hit them for pace on the wings but as soon as we come up against teams who sit back as much as we can against Rangers, Falkirk, Hibs, we run out of options and panic. That isn't down to the supporters, that's down to a poor tactical set-up.

Achilles wrote:yeh let's encourage the players for the good things they have done. 

Well done, you tied your shoelaces well. 
Brilliant, you managed to run in a straight line. 
Great job, you attempted to shoot. 

Get a grip, they are footballers no working in an office. I'm paying their wages, I'm paying money to go and watch their absolutely terrible performances, so I'll pretty much shout whatever I want.

I hesitate to say that your examples are ridiculous...but they are ridiculous. I don't think I suggested I was denying your freedom of speech, but I would say that your response shows a quite staggering - and wilful - lack of understanding of human behaviour! So your telling me that as your boss pays your wages, he/she is entitled to shout at you in whatever way he/she wants? Perhaps you should read what you post first before spouting such nonsense (I presume that you find this suggestion helpful?). As I say, though, motivation and personal development is what I've been doing successfully for the past 25 years...I'd be perfectly happy to work with you on a one-to-one basis as I think I could help you with your anger issues.

Steam Pudding wrote:

Achilles wrote:yeh let's encourage the players for the good things they have done. 

Well done, you tied your shoelaces well. 
Brilliant, you managed to run in a straight line. 
Great job, you attempted to shoot. 

Get a grip, they are footballers no working in an office. I'm paying their wages, I'm paying money to go and watch their absolutely terrible performances, so I'll pretty much shout whatever I want.

I hesitate to say that your examples are ridiculous...but they are ridiculous. I don't think I suggested I was denying your freedom of speech, but I would say that your response shows a quite staggering - and wilful - lack of understanding of human behaviour! So your telling me that as your boss pays your wages, he/she is entitled to shout at you in whatever way he/she wants? Perhaps you should read what you post first before spouting such nonsense (I presume that you find this suggestion helpful?). As I say, though, motivation and personal development is what I've been doing successfully for the past 25 years...I'd be perfectly happy to work with you on a one-to-one basis as I think I could help you with your anger issues.

How can you compare playing football to working in an office though? 2 completely different sectors of the working industry. 
If my work had "fans" inside the office it would be a completely different story of course, however, it doesn't. 
You should maybe start speaking to the club in regards to your wealth of experience as a personal development coach, the players would certainly love to hear some of the powder puff coaching styles you have in mind. 

I'd be interesting in hearing how you could help my anger issues, would certainly be a challenge for you after I watch the majority of our team steal a wage. Another one for your cv

Something just wasn't right yesterday. Was Kakay told to hang back I wonder. Was it agreed that diving in the box was preferable to having a shot at goal? I was surprised that Pitman was first to be subbed since he actually looked as if he wanted to win. White needs a wee spell on the bench. I think he is more effective as a sub. Buchanan (who I do rate) has gone off the boil a bit.
I hope I am wrong but could it be that some of our players raise their game against the bigger teams because they are more likely to be noticed instead of doing the business every week as part of a team. Surely not.

Now a word about the eejits. I was sitting beside a prize erse who effed and cee'd about Cole before during and after half time. I am no shrinking violet at football. The odd explicative is part of the game but this tanked up wee idiot was clearly looking for a reaction which he did get from a few folk including me. He eventually shut up only to start at all all and sundry again on the way out. It should not be up to fellow fans to deal with this. He could have started a riot at times. It makes me wonder about stewards who rush to deal with anyone who takes a drink of water out of a plastic bottle yet turn a blind eye to potential trouble. There is an unsavoury element starting to appear at Livi games who need to be dealt with by the club asap.

Our current form suggests our attack is one of the worst in the league just now, 2 goals in 8 games.

Even Dumbarton who haven't a recognised striker scored against us. When teams are struggling to score they always seem to find the net against us and we can't score against them, combination of us gifting goals and not being able to score any.

Id hoped with the new players getting down the wings we'd start scoring but Kakay wasn't making runs, any balls played to him were passed towards him, so he had to stop and have a man on him right away, so he nearly always passed it back to Cole again. He needs to be making runs up the wing for the ball to be played past him and run onto it, or someone coming up to play an overlap with him. Halkett was doing that on the other side and Mullin was helping him.

Alloa are going to sit in and our past record against teams doing that is chronic, unless we get to the byeline to get in behind them we're never going to break them down.

orco wrote:

Now a word about the eejits. I was sitting beside a prize erse who effed and cee'd about Cole before during and after half time. I am no shrinking violet at football. The odd explicative is part of the game but this tanked up wee idiot was clearly looking for a reaction which he did get from a few folk including me. He eventually shut up only to start at all all and sundry again on the way out. It should not be up to fellow fans to deal with this. He could have started a riot at times. It makes me wonder about stewards who rush to deal with anyone who takes a drink of water out of a plastic bottle yet turn a blind eye to potential trouble. There is an unsavoury element starting to appear at Livi games who need to be dealt with by the club asap.

That boy needs some anger management classes, thought he was going to have an aneurysm.

Achilles wrote:yeh let's encourage the players for the good things they have done. 

Well done, you tied your shoelaces well. 
Brilliant, you managed to run in a straight line. 
Great job, you attempted to shoot. 

Get a grip, they are footballers no working in an office. I'm paying their wages, I'm paying money to go and watch their absolutely terrible performances, so I'll pretty much shout whatever I want.

Well done, completely missed the point of the post you are replying to... I have no problem with people not applauding at half time or the end, I don't like booing the team unless it has been exceptionally bad but I dislike intensely the idea of berating the players during the game. Fans are there to support the team...how is slagging them off showing support? When fans encourage it can often help the team raise its performance level, berating them almost never does. It can be a two-way thing, the team sometimes does something good which raises the spirits of the fans, encouraging them to respond positively.

And as far as claiming that you are paying their wages....really? If you are a season ticket holder you have spent around £200 or if you are PATG you will have spent around £290 if you attend every league game by the end of the season, maybe up to £350 including cup ties. I knew we were cutting the wage bill but if we are getting a team on the pitch for that we really are getting value for money. Even if you are paying for 2 or 3 other people to attend you are not paying anyone's wages. Or maybe you are the club's main sponsor/financial contributor?

Liviforever wrote:

That boy needs some anger management classes, thought he was going to have an aneurysm.

I have a feeling he posts on this forum.

Highlights - https://youtu.be/EiHW2hYzz9U

Both goals were poorly given away. First started with failure to close down Raith's LB before he launched it up the park. Second one is just Halkett on the wrong side of the player and getting bullied off.

Raith highlights showing what I thought,  we had most of the ball in their half and were playing reasonably ok, just hopeless at getting the ball on target. I think we need to be doing a couple of hours a day shooting practice.

Agree with Liviforever we were were well in the game until the cock up between Cole and the goalie, that then has a dramatic influence on the game as we are then chafing the game. This was a good performance and gad we got to half time without conceding then it's a different story.
Some of the reaction on here about players not trying etc is total rubbish.
If we had drawn this game would the reaction been as so much over the top, no I don't think so.
First half was decent against a team whether we think are garbage or otherwise are top four in this league so it's not just ourselves they have taken points off.
Defensively we made a mistake , we had an effort on goal by White immediately when he tried to lob the keeper but was blocked.
Start of second half we lost another goal by them doing what we don't do , get balks across the area for tap ins.
White was then very very close with an effort that just went wide too.

Where it was wrong in the cold light of day is

Stanton was played wide when he should be centre left

KAKAY is never a left back and feel sorry that Longridge wasn't in that position as he is left sided

TELFER should be starting

Feel sorry that Morgyn Neil has been left out after decent performances.

We need to find the correct partner for White

So that's how I feel about the game wish the manager all the best in his calls and it certainly wasn't as bad as lots are making out.

If we can address the points above we will have every chance of beating Alloa

Smithy wrote:Agree with Liviforever we were were well in the game until the cock up between Cole and the goalie, that then has a dramatic influence on the game as we are then chafing the game. This was a good performance and gad we got to half time without conceding then it's a different story.
Some of the reaction on here about players not trying etc is total rubbish.
If we had drawn this game would the reaction been as so much over the top, no I don't think so.
First half was decent against a team whether we think are garbage or otherwise are top four in this league so it's not just ourselves they have taken points off.
Defensively we made a mistake , we had an effort on goal by White immediately when he tried to lob the keeper but was blocked.
Start of second half we lost another goal by them doing what we don't do , get balks across the area for tap ins.
White was then very very close with an effort that just went wide too.

Where it was wrong in the cold light of day is

Stanton was played wide when he should be centre left

KAKAY is never a left back and feel sorry that Longridge wasn't in that position as he is left sided

TELFER should be starting

Feel sorry that Morgyn Neil has been left out after decent performances.

We need to find the correct partner for White

So that's how I feel about the game wish the manager all the best in his calls and it certainly wasn't as bad as lots are making out.

If we can address the points above we will have every chance of beating Alloa

Agree with this mate.

Longridge should start left back with Kakay left mid. Stanton and Fothertingham in centre mid, Telfer up as a CAM with one of our strikers in front.

Replace Darren Cole with Morgyn Neil.


Id be interested to see what our tactics actually are, was discussing this Saturday after the game.
With Morton for example, you know their tactics are to get it down the wing as they have 2 very fast wingers. Dumbarton tend to play for set pieces, Rangers play fast paced counter attacking football and load the oppositions half.

I am struggling to see what we are doing. For me, we have 2 reasonable wingers with Kakay and Mullin, who look like they want to drive at defenders. Use the wingers to get up to the 18 yard box and cut inside and look for the pass in the middle, no point in sending in high balls as White isnt a player who can header, even with his height.

The back 4 should be solid and stick together in a line, however seem very scrambled whenever an attack takes place.

PLAY TRIANGLE PASSES in midfield, too often our boys are hanging on to the ball too long and punting it up the field or punting it out wide and it immediately gets tracked down.

I honestly think if we had an experienced manager who has some kind of tactics we would be fine, however Hopkin, like Burchill, doesnt have any.

Not sure about Kakay not being a LB, he played well at Dumbarton on the RB position driving forward, then was in midfield on the left wing against Hibs and again got forward, 2nd half he went into LB when Longridge was subbed and still got forward, so looked comfortable on both wings. Against Raith however he just wouldn't push forward and commit himself to making runs to get the ball played past him. Was that Hopkin's fault, telling him to play more defensively and for us to keep making runs down the other wing for Halkett? Certainly looked that way.

Agree though, Halkett and Longridge did well against Hibs and Kakay and Mullin looked good in midfield down the wings, so wouldn't mind seeing that again against Alloa and us being more direct and breaking quicker on Alloa. Speed on the attack is what causes havoc with defenders and gives strikers more chances to score. If we move the ball slowly when building up an attack we'll have no chance breaking Alloa down.

I can't say for certain as I haven't been for a while but it seems to me that Hopkin is continuing with Burchill's philosophy of filling round holes with square pegs. It's actually worse though as he has identified the areas where we are weak and brought in players accordingly but is still playing players in positions where they aren't comfortable. That's criminal.

Longridge should be the only one in the team playing left-back since he is comfortably the best playing there. Kakay is apparently a right-back first and foremost, so why not try him there? If he doesn't want to drop Halkett, how about playing him at his apparent natural position of centre-half? The current two certainly aren't playing well enough to be immune from dropping.

The mind boggles that a professional coach won't try the simple things first when we are struggling for points.

EdinburghLivi wrote:I can't say for certain as I haven't been for a while .............

#Armchair Fan getting his people carrier valeted at B&Q