Kenny Miller

Don't see a thread specifically about our new manager so thought i'd start one, I've a feeling we'll be talking about him at some point during the season, in a good way hopefully.

Anyway, a bit from Lee Miller today, saying Kenny Miller has his own ideas on how we should play.

'Mix it up a bit more'
Livi made it back-to-back promotions via the play-offs, using long balls to good effect.
However, Miller suggested a move away from the direct style adopted by former boss David Hopkin.
"I think we're going to try and pass the ball a bit more this year," he said.
"Obviously we had a style of play last season under Davie that suited us, but this year we want to try and add to that.

Not sure about this tbh, we don't want to be too clever trying to pass the ball about in our own half and getting mugged John Hughes esque style of play. When I went to a Hearts game the season they were promoted I noticed they were a lot more physical and direct, and had abandoned their free flowing football style which romped the Championship. Us getting the ball out of our own half straight away and playing in our opponents half seemed sensible, we weren't going to concede goals by getting mugged on the ball anyway.

Just have to see how this goes, hopefully we still play a pressing game with Pittman and Byrne breaking up play in midfield winning balls back, and hitting teams on the counter quickly, I really don't like the passing game if it is slow and just passing for the sake of it. It gives opposition defenders too much time to get back into formation and impossible to break down.

I’m telling you now he’s the wrong choice...but I hope he does a Hoppy & proves me wrong.

Yeh, that statement about passing worries me. Guys like Hughes and Miller forget we haven't got Barcelona standard players. We should play to our strengths and for me last year that was pressing the opposition and getting the ball up the pitch quickly.

I like fast football not that pretty tippy tappy boring stuff.

Worrying but I wonder if its merely "paper talk".

We already pass the ball about midfield quite a bit; admittedly defence is more "lets get rid of the bugger as soon as possible" but that's what worked in the Championship.

Of course the other side of the coin is that Miller hasn't watched us play at all which would be particularly worrying.

Durnford wrote:Worrying but I wonder if its merely "paper talk".

We already pass the ball about midfield quite a bit; admittedly defence  is more "lets get rid of the bugger as soon as possible" but that's what worked in the Championship.

Of course the other side of the coin is that Miller hasn't watched us play at all which would be particularly worrying

That's the impression you got when Hughes took over as manager, his first statement was he'd have us playing passing football, we already were, and very effectively too, all he did was slow it down and make us easy to play against.

With Martindale there i'm hoping any changes will be made slowly, and cautiously, so we can adapt to them and see if they work. Then dump them if they don't.

As Lee Miller also said in that article, there were times we did play passing football, we changed styles to suit who we were playing against.

I would doubt he wants to play a style like Yogi did. As a player Miller was/is about chasing lost causes and bullying defenders...he would have fit perfectly into our team last season...I would think his comments are being misconstrued a little. He probably means he'd like to focus on the passing play we were so good at last season, in the midfield and up front. The direct ball out of defense fits with his personal style of play so I'd imagine he'd stick with that. I wasn't overly pleased he was mentioned as a potential candidate for the job but now he's in I'm excited to see what he does. With his experience and hunger mixed with the continuity of team and Martindale plus the energy in the team could make for some great football this season.

I see he led by example today...getting our only yellow card in injury time.

Tired tackle near the end got him our only booking, put in a good shift. He directs play from the front, signalling to play the ball back the way and switch wings a few times.

From what I saw today we're moving the ball up to the halfway line before knocking long balls through to the forwards, instead of from the back. We did however get caught out doing this for Airdrie's goal, we really can't be doing that against Premiership strikers or we'll get murdered.

Hmmm... He should know better though... was it a tackle that needed to be made so that he “took one for the team” or just one of those daft tackles forwards make because they aren’t defenders?

Carrying the ball to half way before knocking a long ball will shorten the long ball but have more defending players between half way & their own net thus making it more congested. So “on paper” that actually sounds like a backward step. How did it work on the pitch?

I'm not sure I liked it to be honest. There were times when I felt that players were passing just because someone had told them they should be passing before attacking and let's face it everyone wants to impress a new manager. I was raging at the goal we lost. It was a needless pass backwards. I'm not 100% sure but I think it was actually K Miller who started the pass when it came to Halkett who then lost it carelessly. Jury's oot.

Yep jury is out on this tactic, but one thing we learned, and this is what we feared, when we lose the ball doing this we get exposed at the back, all our defenders are high up the pitch so when the opposition striker manages to get the ball off us at the halfway line they can break on us and it's a straight race through on goal. Airdrie exposed us doing it and they're a League One team.

Interesting observation on the Lions' Den forum about Miller being knackered looking and not making runs, this may very well be true and ties in with what I said about him getting that booking, we didn't have any options from the bench to replace him either, and Lee Miller isn't likely to last the 90 mins in games with him being mid 30's either, if Hardie isn't going to be fit for a while then we really need another striker. Young Hamilton could be blooded in these Betfred games esp against Annan and Berwick.

Miller also in the papers mentioning our plastic pitch, along with Accies and Killie both having one, and that at his age he'll have to be careful of jumping about from grass to plastic week after week, that may not be a bad thing for us, it'll give Hardie and L Miller a chance together. Lee is still doing a great job as our target man, he set up Pittman for his goal chesting it towards him and scored our 2nd, almost got another with an overhead kick and got one chopped off for offside, was fantastic at taking the ball down and bringing in players as well as getting nearly every flick on from high balls.

He said he's looking to bring in another 3 or 4 players though, wonder if one is a striker.

Liviforever wrote:Yep jury is out on this tactic, but one thing we learned, and this is what we feared, when we lose the ball doing this we get exposed at the back, all our defenders are high up the pitch so when the opposition striker manages to get the ball off us at the halfway line they can break on us and it's a straight race through on goal. Airdrie exposed us doing it and they're a League One team.

Interesting observation on the Lions' Den forum about Miller being knackered looking and not making runs, this may very well be true and ties in with what I said about him getting that booking, we didn't have any options from the bench to replace him either, and Lee Miller isn't likely to last the 90 mins in games with him being mid 30's either, if Hardie isn't going to be fit for a while then we really need another striker. Young Hamilton could be blooded in these Betfred games esp against Annan and Berwick.

Miller also in the papers mentioning our plastic pitch, along with Accies and Killie both having one, and that at his age he'll have to be careful of jumping about from grass to plastic week after week, that may not be a bad thing for us, it'll give Hardie and L Miller a chance together. Lee is still doing a great job as our target man, he set up Pittman for his goal chesting it towards him and scored our 2nd, almost got another with an overhead kick and got one chopped off for offside, was fantastic at taking the ball down and bringing in players as well as getting nearly every flick on from high balls.

He said he's looking to bring in another 3 or 4 players though, wonder if one is a striker.

It seemed like Miller was hanging back from making runs to allow our goalscoring midfielders to push up. Notice his position for the first goal...I doub't he'd have been knackered then. As for the plastic pitch situation, he's had some experience with switching between the two during his time in the states but as you say his age goes against him there. BSLM has been one of the best pieces of business I've seen from Livingston, a handful for defenders and brings other players into the game so well. Looking forward to this front line when Hardie is back, if we can get Hamilton a couple of run outs it'd give us plenty of options up front...something we lacked at the end of last season.

cptn_hooch wrote:

Liviforever wrote:Yep jury is out on this tactic, but one thing we learned, and this is what we feared, when we lose the ball doing this we get exposed at the back, all our defenders are high up the pitch so when the opposition striker manages to get the ball off us at the halfway line they can break on us and it's a straight race through on goal. Airdrie exposed us doing it and they're a League One team.

Interesting observation on the Lions' Den forum about Miller being knackered looking and not making runs, this may very well be true and ties in with what I said about him getting that booking, we didn't have any options from the bench to replace him either, and Lee Miller isn't likely to last the 90 mins in games with him being mid 30's either, if Hardie isn't going to be fit for a while then we really need another striker. Young Hamilton could be blooded in these Betfred games esp against Annan and Berwick.

Miller also in the papers mentioning our plastic pitch, along with Accies and Killie both having one, and that at his age he'll have to be careful of jumping about from grass to plastic week after week, that may not be a bad thing for us, it'll give Hardie and L Miller a chance together. Lee is still doing a great job as our target man, he set up Pittman for his goal chesting it towards him and scored our 2nd, almost got another with an overhead kick and got one chopped off for offside, was fantastic at taking the ball down and bringing in players as well as getting nearly every flick on from high balls.

He said he's looking to bring in another 3 or 4 players though, wonder if one is a striker.

It seemed like Miller was hanging back from making runs to allow our goalscoring midfielders to push up. Notice his position for the first goal...I doub't he'd have been knackered then. As for the plastic pitch situation, he's had some experience with switching between the two during his time in the states but as you say his age goes against him there. BSLM has been one of the best pieces of business I've seen from Livingston, a handful for defenders and brings other players into the game so well. Looking forward to this front line when Hardie is back, if we can get Hamilton a couple of run outs it'd give us plenty of options up front...something we lacked at the end of last season.

Ohright, interesting.

Him and Kelly are certainly under the microscope this season. Other players will get a free pass on mistakes but those two wont.

cptn_hooch wrote:

Liviforever wrote:Yep jury is out on this tactic, but one thing we learned, and this is what we feared, when we lose the ball doing this we get exposed at the back, all our defenders are high up the pitch so when the opposition striker manages to get the ball off us at the halfway line they can break on us and it's a straight race through on goal. Airdrie exposed us doing it and they're a League One team.

Interesting observation on the Lions' Den forum about Miller being knackered looking and not making runs, this may very well be true and ties in with what I said about him getting that booking, we didn't have any options from the bench to replace him either, and Lee Miller isn't likely to last the 90 mins in games with him being mid 30's either, if Hardie isn't going to be fit for a while then we really need another striker. Young Hamilton could be blooded in these Betfred games esp against Annan and Berwick.

Miller also in the papers mentioning our plastic pitch, along with Accies and Killie both having one, and that at his age he'll have to be careful of jumping about from grass to plastic week after week, that may not be a bad thing for us, it'll give Hardie and L Miller a chance together. Lee is still doing a great job as our target man, he set up Pittman for his goal chesting it towards him and scored our 2nd, almost got another with an overhead kick and got one chopped off for offside, was fantastic at taking the ball down and bringing in players as well as getting nearly every flick on from high balls.

He said he's looking to bring in another 3 or 4 players though, wonder if one is a striker.

It seemed like Miller was hanging back from making runs to allow our goalscoring midfielders to push up. Notice his position for the first goal...I doub't he'd have been knackered then. As for the plastic pitch situation, he's had some experience with switching between the two during his time in the states but as you say his age goes against him there. BSLM has been one of the best pieces of business I've seen from Livingston, a handful for defenders and brings other players into the game so well. Looking forward to this front line when Hardie is back, if we can get Hamilton a couple of run outs it'd give us plenty of options up front...something we lacked at the end of last season.

He was blowing at 70mins -- good tactic for striker to hold back if the opposition stay with him but they didn't and he wasn't pulling the defence out at this stage of the game.
KM is a good player but i still think he was not fit enough for a full 90mins.

Yeah I think we'll be fine once Hardie is fit enough to get playing again though, still really reliant on our midfielders for goals just now. Which isn't a bad thing right enough, they were the main reason we got promoted, esp in the play offs when Miller was the only striker left standing, but it's always better to have a main focal point for goals leading the line.

Btw we put a great ball across the 6 yard box late on in the game against Airdrie, it was just set up perfectly for Scotty P to run in there and score, unfortunately he had been subbed by then. #leavescottyponallgame

Having been to all 3 of our Betfred cup games and seen various starting line ups in those competitive games, my early observations on Kenny Miller as a player manager are that he prob needs to either go all in as the player part or take a step back allowing others into the front 2 positions.

Against Airdrie and Hamilton he was playing too deep, and not giving Lee Miller enough support, which led to L Miller winning everything in the air and heading the ball on to nobody in a Livi shirt. I think the reason for this is he's staying back where he can orchestrate our play, but that's at a cost of us isolating L Miller and midfielders having to try and get up to support him.


Against Annan on Sat he started up the pitch supporting Hamilton, and scored a goal, but as the game went on he dropped deeper again, and Hamilton was left having to play up front by himself.


Imo Lee Miller would be a better partnership for Hamilton, he'd be ideal as the target man playing Hamilton in on goal, or knocking the headers onto him, just now L Miller is being wasted and Hamilton would get a far better chance to show us what he can do too.


I can't see K Miller stepping down from playing so really hoping once the league games start he will stick to the one job on the pitch when he's playing and give it his full attention to help the players out more. He can't play to his full potential as a striker whilst directing play and hanging back in midfield.

Yeah; you have identified exactly why IMO player manager does not work. I’ve only seen the Annan game but you describe Miller’s involvement perfectly.

The simple solution is for him to be the manager & keep himself as a potential sub. However, as I understand it he won’t do that. So the next option is for him to play but while he is on the pitch he is just another player & he needs to delegate the managerial role to DM. If he then gets subbed off he can take over the managerial reigns. However, I suspect he won’t do that either.

Which brings the third option, the board admit that it’s a mistake & punt him before any serious damage is done...but we all know that won’t happen.

So let’s hope he/they prove us wrong & quickly.

We're big time now, sky sports interviewing Kenny Miller in the stadium. http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/11458867/miller-were-going-there-to-win


Get a look at our new pitch too as they wander out onto it.

Same interviewer talking to Lee Miller pitch side. http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/11458864/miller-has-brought-us-real-belief

Interview in today’s Scotsman
https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/teams/rangers/interview-kenny-miller-says-his-sad-rangers-exit-can-t-be-fixed-1-4786189

Sadly, this piece made me cringe a lot more than it filled me with any confidence... even the link connects the piece to Rangers rather than Livi.

Starts off well then, we weren't plunged into darkness when the lights went off on Tues, it was just before kick off as the tannoy guy was announcing the Forfar line up, it was still daylight or the game couldn't have been played into the 2nd half.

Yeah Bertie your heart must've sank when you read he was wanting to play for another few years, even mentioning when he's 45.
Seriously though it doesn't sound good, he seems to think he's our best option up front, wonder if that'll change when Hardie is back playing.

I keep telling you that it won’t & I am telling you again, it won’t.

I fully expect Hardie’s loan deal to be terminated early in the Jan window.

If that happens i'll be furious, Hardie is our best hope of staying up. And we're capabale of staying up quite comfortably but only if Hardie is going to be playing. We're desperately needing a goal scoring striker just now or it'll be a struggle till he's back playing. Spoke to him after the game today and he reckoned he would be ready to get back playing in 2 weeks, and he'd started doing some running to get fit.

I agree with you. I’m not sure the manager does though.

Couldn't even read that article, almost made my eyes bleed at times. It was always going to be hard for Miller to fully win over the fans, his refusal to play Lithgow already annoying some, and if he continues to persist with himself up front when it's not working then it'll get worse, and if he was to shun Hardie and not play him much then that would probably be it for him unless we're comfortably away from the bottom of the table.

I'm hoping the comment about him being fitter than anyone else in the team was more of a joke than it seemed though, could be a dangerous level of arrogance if he believes that.

Yeah, I was certainly hoping that too. As for playing until he’s 45... trying actually playing for 45 minutes rather than trying to manage on the pitch.