Livi v St Mirren

We badly need a win in this one to restore belief. Saints have restarted with a bang by beating Aberdeen comfortably while we have kept it tight against Celtic and capitulated against Hibs in adversity. Lose this game and the top 6 becomes nothing more than a pipe dream because we can’t afford to start losing ground to the teams we are competing against for a top 6 place.

Totally fed up with all this Hibs talk.Time to put it to bed and concentrate on the St Mirren game imo.Despite the ten men scenario it was worrying how easy we collapsed defencevly.Hopefully weve learned a sore lesson from that.Hopefully big Joel is back for this as weve obviously missed him.Bahamboula was impressing the other day before being unfortunately hooked.As Nick says Saints had a great game against the Don's albeit against ten men.Theyl be buoyant coming through here and its up to bring them back down to earth. I'd normally say home advantage might just swing it our way,not here.Two evenly matched teams.I suspect it'll come down to who wants it more,hopefully us.Baltic night in prospect so wrap up well and hopefully the Lions will keep the cold away.Mon the Lions..

We should've won in Paisley, so we owe them one.

Just for once can we have, Nouble-Anderson-Bahamboula in a front 3, always seems to be something knackering us for having the 3 of them playing together, Nouble & Bahamboula are a handful for any team in this league, and Anderson doing what he does best getting into the box on the end of their balls across the 6 yard line. If that happens i've no doubts at all we'll win. As i said though it just isn't happening for us.

Yeh,will be interesting to see the starting lineup. Don't know about Joel or Shamal.Suspect it will be similar to Saturdays. Whatever it will be a tough task.Hopefully we take something from it.Could do with some late Xmas cheer..

Going by the update Calum Carson gave on Joel's injury I'm not feeling optimistic that he'll make it. Inflammation in the knee doesn't sound simple. I'm more confident when he plays.
It was hard to judge the team on Saturday. Yes we collapsed but because it was so early in the game I think it affected the players
Hopefully we finish with 11 men and start the game with the determination to show that Saturday was not a typical Livi performance.

How on earth did he sustain an injury during what was effectively 4 weeks of keeping the guys fit?

He gets, kicked, trodden on, pulled, pushed & elbowed every week in league games and never flinches but he gets injured during warm weather training (or on his return to the cold weather training)… something smells.

Auld Nick wrote:How on earth did he sustain an injury during what was effectively 4 weeks of keeping the guys fit?

He gets, kicked, trodden on, pulled, pushed & elbowed every week in league games and never flinches but he gets injured during warm weather training (or on his return to the cold weather training)… something smells.

Got it in an Atlantic cup game.

Bloody frustrating if that's the case.To be pishing down all day apparently so Davie might not risk him.Im getting a slight fear for tonight as its getting closer.Hope I'm very very wrong.FFS Livi,just don't get beat.And VAR can feck off..

Liviforever wrote:

Auld Nick wrote:How on earth did he sustain an injury during what was effectively 4 weeks of keeping the guys fit?

He gets, kicked, trodden on, pulled, pushed & elbowed every week in league games and never flinches but he gets injured during warm weather training (or on his return to the cold weather training)… something smells.

Got it in an Atlantic cup game.

Oh that’s alright then, as long as we won a cup (not a dig at your comment LF, just the situation).

Like Troy I’ve got the fear for tonight… Robinson was a waste of space when he took over at Saints but has been given time and has them doing as well as - if not better than - Goodman was doing. And of course the long standing tradition of the away team doing better in this fixture (albeit not quite so frequently as before).

Auld Nick wrote:

Liviforever wrote:

Auld Nick wrote:How on earth did he sustain an injury during what was effectively 4 weeks of keeping the guys fit?

He gets, kicked, trodden on, pulled, pushed & elbowed every week in league games and never flinches but he gets injured during warm weather training (or on his return to the cold weather training)… something smells.

Got it in an Atlantic cup game.

Oh that’s alright then, as long as we won a cup (not a dig at your comment LF, just the situation).

Like Troy I’ve got the fear for tonight… Robinson was a waste of space when he took over at Saints but has been given time and has them doing as well as - if not better than - Goodman was doing. And of course the long standing tradition of the away team doing better in this fixture (albeit not quite so frequently as before).

Just one of those things Nick, the players need to be playing competitive games during these winter breaks, to keep match fit, could just as easily have happened in training too though, i remember Anderson injuring himself during the warm ups before a game and couldn't play. One of these days we'll get both Anderson and Nouble playing together from the start of a game.

No Fitzwater Holt or Nouble?.God help us. .

Troy has posted about tonight’s game in an old thread…

Pittman’s red car was virtually identical to Holt’s on Saturday, he plays the ball and the Saints lad arrives late to be caught by Pittman’s foot going through the normal process of having kicked the ball. If the Saints lad wasn’t  late to the challenge there wouldn’t have been contact. Absolute Joke of a decision.

And… when their keeper clears the ball and follows through on Bruce…why is that not treated in exactly the same way? If they were being consistent and even handed the keeper should have been sent off too. Absolute Farce.

Their lad’s second yellow was on the soft side but it did prevent a breakaway so can maybe justify it but it looks more like a coming together, maybe a bit of “clever” play by Bruce to cut across the guy chasing him.

As for the game, Saints only really came into it when it was 10v10 - if Bruce scores when he’s through on goal to make it 2-0 we win comfortably but he doesn’t score and a few minutes later they equalise, mainly due to Ayo failing to stop Brophy crossing the ball with some inept defending.

Ivan makes a worldy of a save too.

Over the piece I thought we edged it and should have won but they fought back well after we took the lead so it could be argued that a draw was about right.

Yep,still under Livi v St Mirren.Apologies.Wont go over it all again.Stand by what I said.Still frustrated after last night's game.‍�.

Hard not to think there is a conspiracy to get Livi out of the SPL. If those cards are not downgraded it will say a lot.

Agree Orco.But if both those card's are recinded it surely brings in the doubt in credibility of those officiating in our last two matches as well as VAR which in both cases got it completely wrong.‍�.

So Holts red card stands and he misses the next two games. Fully expect Scott's to go the same way tomorrow. Really is soul destroying to see rational reasoning be completely ignored.Hopefully the club never waste their time contesting these situations again.They don't stand a chance against institutional corruption. .

I would like to see a journalist grow a pair and do a deep dive investigation into the joke that is the SFA, specifically the refereeing ranks. They ineptitude is staggering and the implementation of VAR was always going to be a farce of the highest order. It used to be incompetent clowns with whistles on the field of play, they are still there but they are being compounded by incompetent clowns with video machines.

Holt and Pittman both played the ball before their opponents were even on the scene, the only reason the opponent was touched was because they arrived late, Holt & Pittman were both already committed to playing the ball and unable to stop or divert, they should not be held accountable for contact that they had no intention of making and wouldn’t have if the opponent had not challenged late. Furthermore, the challenge by Saints keeper on Bruce was the same, but he played the ball & clattered Bruce knowing he was there so in fact it was worse & what happens? Not even a free kick.

Opposition fans in both games saying it was harsh, or it was the correct decision, which in this game at least shows what Martindale was saying, it isn't clear and obvious for VAR to get involved and tell the ref to go look at the screen, after originally giving Pittman a yellow.

Against Hibs you actually wanted the ref to just give a yellow and leave it to VAR whether it deserved a closer look, but after the decision against us last night still ended in a red card you have to wonder what is the actual benefit of having VAR, when wrong decisions are still happening.

Thing with these opposition fans going on about catching their player in a folow through tackle, neither incident were tackles, both were cleanly taken kicks clearing the ball, then the opposition players came in late into our players paths and got caught. In Pitts case the player actually kicked him after the ball was gone, and at the same time got his other leg caught with Pitts studs. A coming together instigated with the opposition player coming in late, how the hell is that seen as a red card by the ref. Hopefully the review panel absolve Holt and Pittman and we get this debacle sorted out, as officials clearly don't know WTF they're doing.

Troy wrote:So Holts red card stands and he misses the next two games. Fully expect Scott's to go the same way tomorrow. Really is soul destroying to see rational reasoning be completely ignored.Hopefully the club never waste their time contesting these situations again.They don't stand a chance against institutional corruption. .

Aw well then that'll be that then, what a joke.

So Pitts red card stands,really don't know why the club appealed these.Waste of money when the decision was never in doubt from these cretins at Hampden. Beginning to think there is a real agenda against us. .

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64120665.amp


Anybody watch this new programme on BBC, The VARdict? The Livi bit starts about 3.55m.
It's embarrassing the way Stuart Dougal tries to justify the red cards.
Full marks to Richard Foster for telling him he was wrong.

Complete nonsense from Dougall trying to justify the reds. Foster was exactly right in his analysis. Same with the Stevie May pen against Hearts, Foster gets it right in pointing out that May has conned the ref. Dougall again embarrasses himself by saying “Willie Collum, experienced referee” as if that means he’s infallible.

I thought they both got the first St M pen against Aberdeen wrong as I’ve yet to see an angle showing the tug continuing into the box, to my mind he is tugged outside the box and falls into the box.

He doesn't seem to understand that it was the opposition players initiating the contact on themselves going in late for the ball, pretty much like deliberately placing your foot/leg in a tangle with a defenders leg to trip yourself up inside the box to fool the ref into giving you a penalty. Also completely ignores Foster's point that it was actually a late kick on Pittman by Baccus, but he also gets his foot caught at the same time. Then justifies the red as who got caught the worst, so if Pittman got kicked in the ankle instead of the leg would he have been deemed the most injured party and Bacuss red carded, what a stupid way to decide where fault lies.

Also his wording 'can be seen as a red card' is very ambiguous, leaving it open for another ref to not see it that way in a different game (a sevco player) and this ref apologist would back him too. He's basically there to just agree with whatever ref decision they're looking at.

To top it all off the cheeky aunt mentions the Boyes red card at Ibrox, saying it's maybe something Livingston should be looking at. That yellow card being upgraded to a red by VAR was nothing like the 2 we're looking at now, and Martindale has said that, ridiculous for this clown to bring it up in some clumsy attempt to blame Livingston players for the way they challenge for balls.

Liviforever wrote:He doesn't seem to understand that it was the opposition players initiating the contact on themselves going in late for the ball, pretty much like deliberately placing your foot/leg in a tangle with a defenders leg to trip yourself up inside the box to fool the ref into giving you a penalty. Also completely ignores Foster's point that it was actually a late kick on Pittman by Baccus, but he also gets his foot caught at the same time. Then justifies the red as who got caught the worst, so if Pittman got kicked in the ankle instead of the leg would he have been deemed the most injured party and Bacuss red carded, what a stupid way to decide where fault lies.

Also his wording 'can be seen as a red card' is very ambiguous, leaving it open for another ref to not see it that way in a different game (a sevco player) and this ref apologist would back him too. He's basically there to just agree with whatever ref decision they're looking at.

To top it all off the cheeky aunt mentions the Boyes red card at Ibrox, saying it's maybe something Livingston should be looking at. That yellow card being upgraded to a red by VAR was nothing like the 2 we're looking at now, and Martindale has said that, ridiculous for this clown to bring it up in some clumsy attempt to blame Livingston players for the way they challenge for balls.

I've been saying since both of these incidents that the behaviour of the opposition player was what influenced the referee. Play acting at its worse. Did we see Craig Gordon rolling around last week - no, because he really was hurt. These two on the other hand managed to finish the games even though the incidents happened early. So this ties in with your observation Liviforever. The player who looks most injured must be the victim.
It was a pleasure watching those referees in the World Cup demonstrate how the job should be done. Then we come back to these guys. They are pathetic