Livi v St Johnstone

A win here would put us 14 pts clear of the fermers at the bottom of the table, almost double their points tally for the season, pretty much making us safe from automatic relegation. Could even move us up into the top 6, if other results go our way, so massive game for us.

DM changed our shape several times against Hibs, one of those  was to go with 2 up front, would be great if those two were Nouble and Anderson, reckon that would be a potent partnership, with Bailey or Forrest on the wing (don't think we can fit both in if we go 2 up top, unless Forrest partners Nouble), doubt St Johnstone could live with us. Might even see Soto coming off the bench too, some difference to our attack from the first half of the season.

Wouldn't mind seeing this line up and formation,

............................Stryjek


.Devlin.        Fitzwater.        Obiley.          Penrice/Montano


............Holt.           Pittman            Omeonga


................             Forrest


..................Anderson         Nouble

we'd have a strong bench too with Bailey, McMillan, Penrice/Montano, Shinnie, Soto, Chuck, Lewis, Boyes  as options.

Ideally we go 3 zip up and are able to get the likes of Soto, Chuck and Boyes on, to give them game time and help bed them in.

Don’t know who they have brought in but StJ seem to be active in the window

Hope we waken tomorrow with no last minute departures. To the game itself.Hope we can carry on from where we left off on Saturday. Great chance to put a significant distance between us and the bottom two.Agree again would love to see Nouble and Anderson start but you never know with Davie.Expecting a tougher game than anticipated but hope our form continues to get us valuable point.Mon the Lions.

I thought we started both halves well enough, I thought Saints opened the scoring slightly against the run of play, good cross and header from their perspective, poor defending from ours. Up to then we had been getting at their defence & causing problems. After they scored we were dreadful until the move that brought the equaliser, which showed how easy it should have been to get at them.

Second half we dominated a bit longer but then disappeared again as they began to assert themselves and penned us in our half for a number of corners - of course our brainless method of defending corners with no out-ball helped them achieve that. Good effort from Forrest from the free kick but I don’t think it was going in. Thereafter we huffed & puffed while they hit us on the break & I could see them grabbing a winner, which they did. Good effort from Forrest to set up Devlin & I thought it was going in only for it to hit the post.

In the end I thought we showed flashes of what could have been but didn’t deserve anything. Far too much slastering about in our own half instead of forcing them on to the back foot, when we did do that we caused them problems.

All the draws elsewhere minimised the potential damage, so we got lucky there.

Obviously a bad day at the office.Didnt see that coming tbh at all.The midfield had an off night from what I could see and a big difference from Saturday. This fannying about at the back is really getting on my wick,Ayo and Jack probably had their poorest game since arriving here imo.Only Forrest and Bruce just about got pass marks from me in a game we deserved a point and nearly got it at the end.The referee was a complete bell end the whole game and thats not an excuse for the defeat.His ineptitude was plain to see by all as he had an absolute shocker.Will need to see Noubles double yellow back but at the time they looked harsh,but not surprising givin the refs performance all night.Need to get this display out of our system and move on to Saturday. Dissapointing.

Yeah, midfield were disappointing but so was Bailey, had a couple of decent moments early but looked a yard off the pace thereafter.

I think Saints showed that they are a better side than their league position suggests & the longer the game went at 1-1 I just knew they would grab a second.

We saw the 5 things about Livi that are extremely frustrating-
1.Overplaying it at the back, playing ourselves into trouble as a result.
2.No out ball at corners,inviting the opposition to reapply the pressure.
3.Poor decision making in the final third, Forrest in particular is guilty of shooting when there are better options (the assist for Anderson and setting up the chance for Devlin were his best decisions, Devlin should have scored but unfortunately didn’t)
4.Going long against a team where we had already shown we could take them on up the wings. (The spell between the opener & equaliser in particular)
5.Puzzling substitutions (I hope he comes good but Chuk is well off the pace at the moment) - taking Bailey off was right but the chance was there at that point to try Anderson & Nouble together.

Yeh,totally agree with all your points Nick.And to edit my post just saw Joel's two yellow cards.What an absolute joke.Im lead to believe we can't appeal as it was two yellows,which is infuriating. Also nice of Sportscene to miss our great chance at the end to take a point.At one point we had them on the proverbial rack but didn't capitalise.To many players off their game unfortunately. Hopefully they get it back for Saturday..

Auld Nick wrote:I thought we started both halves well enough, I thought Saints opened the scoring slightly against the run of play, good cross and header from their perspective, poor defending from ours. Up to then we had been getting at their defence & causing problems. After they scored we were dreadful until the move that brought the equaliser, which showed how easy it should have been to get at them.

Second half we dominated a bit longer but then disappeared again as they began to assert themselves and penned us in our half for a number of corners - of course our brainless method of defending corners with no out-ball helped them achieve that. Good effort from Forrest from the free kick but I don’t think it was going in. Thereafter we huffed & puffed while they hit us on the break & I could see them grabbing a winner, which they did. Good effort from Forrest to set up Devlin & I thought it was going in only for it to hit the post.

In the end I thought we showed flashes of what could have been but didn’t deserve anything. Far too much slastering about in our own half instead of forcing them on to the back foot, when we did do that we caused them problems.

All the draws elsewhere minimised the potential damage, so we got lucky there.

Not often we agree on here Auld Nick, but that sums up the game perfectly.

Max had a couple of balls hit back at him on the line when we were faffing around, suicidal defending which we got away with, thought it was wildly known you never pass back towards your own goal, esp when the keeper is standing on the bloody line, one miskick and it's in the net.

After they scored we looked lost, and St Johnstone did to us what we did to Hibs, pressed the life out of us. Thought we stood off them leading up to their goal, right from the player that carried it up the pitch into our half, we kept running away covering other players and allowing him the freedom to just keep coming up the pitch, after that it was like watching a play station game, pass, pass, pass, pass, goal, far too easy.

A few players look well off their game, Pitts was very poor by his standards, so was Ayo, even Omeonga looked a shadow of himself compared to his Hibs display. Forrest and Anderson were about the only attacking players showing some energy, particularly Forrest, who just ran at them to set up our goal. Holt put himself about too and was our only decent midfielder last night. Maybe the Hibs game took a lot out of us, but St Johnstone looked far more up for it than us, and got what they deserved.

Troy wrote:Obviously a bad day at the office.Didnt see that coming tbh at all.The midfield had an off night from what I could see and a big difference from Saturday. This fannying about at the back is really getting on my wick,Ayo and Jack probably had their poorest game since arriving here imo.Only Forrest and Bruce just about got pass marks from me in a game we deserved a point and nearly got it at the end.The referee was a complete bell end the whole game and thats not an excuse for the defeat.His ineptitude was plain to see by all as he had an absolute shocker.Will need to see Noubles double yellow back but at the time they looked harsh,but not surprising givin the refs performance all night.Need to get this display out of our system and move on to Saturday. Dissapointing.

I just knew we'd pick up the first yellow, after being fouled several times and their players repeatedly just getting warnings from him (even after he'd started booking our players he still gave a few warnings to St J players), Bruce was cynically brought down a few times to stop us breaking on them, nothing from the ref but awarding us the foul, got bear hugged to the ground when a ball was hit up to him, not even a foul awarded. Then out comes a yellow for Bruce for a challenge St Johnstone players had got away with all night.

Can't remember a season where opposition players get the game stopped so often going to ground holding their faces, happening a lot this season. Seem to be targeting Nouble for bookings too, Porteous was doing it, rolling about everytime Nouble went near him, holding up fingers to the ref telling him how many times Nouble has fouled him, and the St Johnstone players were over egging it writhing on the ground, then miraculously getting up without so much as a limp.

Auld Nick wrote:Yeah, midfield were disappointing but so was Bailey, had a couple of decent moments early but looked a yard off the pace thereafter.

I think Saints showed that they are a better side than their league position suggests & the longer the game went at 1-1 I just knew they would grab a second.

We saw the 5 things about Livi that are extremely frustrating-
1.Overplaying it at the back, playing ourselves into trouble as a result.
2.No out ball at corners,inviting the opposition to reapply the pressure.
3.Poor decision making in the final third, Forrest in particular is guilty of shooting when there are better options  (the assist for Anderson and setting up the chance for Devlin were his best decisions, Devlin should have scored but unfortunately didn’t)
4.Going long against a team where we had already shown we could take them on up the wings. (The spell between the opener & equaliser in particular)
5.Puzzling substitutions (I hope he comes good but Chuk is well off the pace at the moment) - taking Bailey off was right but the chance was there at that point to try Anderson & Nouble together.

Amen to that, will it ever fecking happen though.

Actually thinking of changing my seat from behind the away dugout to the home one, just so i can shout at Martindale to get a player up on the halfway line to give us an out ball defending corners. Really getting on my tits now watching us have no out ball, and it coming back in at us several times before we can get it away. Why does he not see that?????????????

Max had the ball in his arms a few times with nobody to kick it up to, then stood there for 30 seconds while we, and them, got everyone up the pitch. If Bruce had been there he'd be in with a great chance to run through on goal from a quick boot up the pitch.

Damn you, Livi. Did we not give St Johnstone the same amount of respect as we gave Hibs? How do we beat a top 6 team then lose to the bottom team? It's a tale as old as time down at the 'Vale. Getting sick of the 'Alan Forrest show', hope he got a rocket up the hoop for his ball greediness last night.

It was the Alan Forrest show, he was the only player making runs in the final 3rd setting up the goal, and doing the same again but nobody got onto the cross inside the 6 yard box. Set up Devlin for the chance to equalize at the death too, best player on the pitch by a mile.

HT team talk should've beeen get the ball to Forrest at every opportunity.

Ref sending Nouble off was a complete joke, must've had a bet on how many booking he could give Livingston, plus a sending off.

Liviforever wrote:It was the Alan Forrest show, he was the only player making runs in the final 3rd setting up the goal, and doing the same again but nobody got onto the cross inside the 6 yard box. Set up Devlin for the chance to equalize at the death too, best player on the pitch by a mile.

HT team talk should've beeen get the ball to Forrest at every opportunity.

Ref sending Nouble off was a complete joke, must've had a bet on how many booking he could give Livingston, plus a sending off.

I think viewers of that show get frustrated when he continually goes for goal when there are team-mates in better positions to pass to.

The recent stories about him turning down a contract and wanting to leave then u-turning after Martindale chased him a bit gives me the sort of vibe that he's still got a bit of maturing to do. Instead of knuckling down, improving and forcing his way into the team, he takes a huff and threatens to leave. You can see in his play sometimes that he wants to go for glory instead of doing the more intelligent thing.

Yeh,agree about Alan being over exuberant at times with his decisions. Sometimes discrection could serve him well.His brother James has the same predicament at times not using the players around him.Not saying its selfish as he's been magnificent for us,maybe its in the Forrest genes.Anyway glad he's stayed with us.Important player for the team imo..

Forrest was one of our best players against Hibs, in our last 2 games against them, and was our best player against St Johnstone, setting up the goal and another 2 that should've been scored, if someone had gambled getting into the 6 yard box for an identical cross to the one Anderson scored, and Devlin sticking it away. If that's not good enough for our fans them i'm at a loss as to what would be.

Yes he could've squared another one instead of shooting, but 3 excellent crosses/passes more than makes up for one he chose to shoot with.

Forrest on this sort of form is unplayable, he's certainly shown more than enough commitment to us after the St Johnstone bid. Find it strange how anyone can think he'd be in a huff too, if that was remotely true he wouldn't be anywhere near the team, Martindale isn't a shrinking violet when it comes to binning players with an attitude problem, just look what happened to Robbo when he was on the form of his life with us, and didn't kick another ball once he took the huff at being subbed after coming on as a sub. No danger Forrest is anything but commited to giving Livi his all just now.

Whether he leaves next season or not, well that's up to him, if he has offers and will have a better future elsewhere, he'd be daft not going, and Martindale has said repeatedly he wont stand in any of our players way. Fitzwater is in the same situation on that score, Omeonga too if he keeps producing top performances.

Liviforever wrote:Forrest was one of our best players against Hibs, in our last 2 games against them, and was our best player against St Johnstone, setting up the goal and another 2 that should've been scored, if someone had gambled getting into the 6 yard box for an identical cross to the one Anderson scored, and Devlin sticking it away. If that's not good enough for our fans them i'm at a loss as to what would be.

Yes he could've squared another one instead of shooting, but 3 excellent crosses/passes more than makes up for one he chose to shoot with.

Forrest on this sort of form is unplayable, he's certainly shown more than enough commitment to us after the St Johnstone bid. Find it strange how anyone can think he'd be in a huff too, if that was remotely true he wouldn't be anywhere near the team, Martindale isn't a shrinking violet when it comes to binning players with an attitude problem, just look what happened to Robbo when he was on the form of his life with us, and didn't kick another ball once he took the huff at being subbed after coming on as a sub. No danger Forrest is anything but commited to giving Livi his all just now.

Whether he leaves next season or not, well that's up to him, if he has offers and will have a better future elsewhere, he'd be daft not going, and Martindale has said repeatedly he wont stand in any of our players way. Fitzwater is in the same situation on that score, Omeonga too if he keeps producing top performances.

I think the issue with Robinson was different as his attitude problem was a bit more public. The modern day manager has to suck up to the players a bit these days. It's wrong, but it's part of the modern game. If Martindale was as ruthless as you say, I'd have thought Forrest's bridges would be completely burned now after turning down a deal from us then turning down St Johnstone because he's had an apparent change of heart. He clearly wants chased, to feel loved and for Martindale to give him some attention. A more hard nosed manager would be telling him he's taking the piss and to be on his way.

ol1vercloff wrote:

Liviforever wrote:Forrest was one of our best players against Hibs, in our last 2 games against them, and was our best player against St Johnstone, setting up the goal and another 2 that should've been scored, if someone had gambled getting into the 6 yard box for an identical cross to the one Anderson scored, and Devlin sticking it away. If that's not good enough for our fans them i'm at a loss as to what would be.

Yes he could've squared another one instead of shooting, but 3 excellent crosses/passes more than makes up for one he chose to shoot with.

Forrest on this sort of form is unplayable, he's certainly shown more than enough commitment to us after the St Johnstone bid. Find it strange how anyone can think he'd be in a huff too, if that was remotely true he wouldn't be anywhere near the team, Martindale isn't a shrinking violet when it comes to binning players with an attitude problem, just look what happened to Robbo when he was on the form of his life with us, and didn't kick another ball once he took the huff at being subbed after coming on as a sub. No danger Forrest is anything but commited to giving Livi his all just now.

Whether he leaves next season or not, well that's up to him, if he has offers and will have a better future elsewhere, he'd be daft not going, and Martindale has said repeatedly he wont stand in any of our players way. Fitzwater is in the same situation on that score, Omeonga too if he keeps producing top performances.

I think the issue with Robinson was different as his attitude problem was a bit more public.  The modern day manager has to suck up to the players a bit these days.  It's wrong, but it's part of the modern game.  If Martindale was as ruthless as you say, I'd have thought Forrest's bridges would be completely burned now after turning down a deal from us then turning down St Johnstone because he's had an apparent change of heart.  He clearly wants chased, to feel loved and for Martindale to give him some attention.  A more hard nosed manager would be telling him he's taking the piss and to be on his way.

He did the same with Max last season too, and nobody knew why until he told us his reasons in an interview this season, if there was a problem he'd bin Forrest and he wouldn't kick a ball for us again, but there isn't, and you can see by his play against St Johnstone he's giving it his all. Whether that's for a shop window move i don't know, but as long as he's playing like that for us i doubt Martindale cares.

Think you're seeing something that isn't there.

Liviforever wrote:

ol1vercloff wrote:

Liviforever wrote:Forrest was one of our best players against Hibs, in our last 2 games against them, and was our best player against St Johnstone, setting up the goal and another 2 that should've been scored, if someone had gambled getting into the 6 yard box for an identical cross to the one Anderson scored, and Devlin sticking it away. If that's not good enough for our fans them i'm at a loss as to what would be.

Yes he could've squared another one instead of shooting, but 3 excellent crosses/passes more than makes up for one he chose to shoot with.

Forrest on this sort of form is unplayable, he's certainly shown more than enough commitment to us after the St Johnstone bid. Find it strange how anyone can think he'd be in a huff too, if that was remotely true he wouldn't be anywhere near the team, Martindale isn't a shrinking violet when it comes to binning players with an attitude problem, just look what happened to Robbo when he was on the form of his life with us, and didn't kick another ball once he took the huff at being subbed after coming on as a sub. No danger Forrest is anything but commited to giving Livi his all just now.

Whether he leaves next season or not, well that's up to him, if he has offers and will have a better future elsewhere, he'd be daft not going, and Martindale has said repeatedly he wont stand in any of our players way. Fitzwater is in the same situation on that score, Omeonga too if he keeps producing top performances.

I think the issue with Robinson was different as his attitude problem was a bit more public.  The modern day manager has to suck up to the players a bit these days.  It's wrong, but it's part of the modern game.  If Martindale was as ruthless as you say, I'd have thought Forrest's bridges would be completely burned now after turning down a deal from us then turning down St Johnstone because he's had an apparent change of heart.  He clearly wants chased, to feel loved and for Martindale to give him some attention.  A more hard nosed manager would be telling him he's taking the piss and to be on his way.

He did the same with Max last season too, and nobody knew why until this season when he told us his reasons in an interview this season, if there was a problem he'd bin Forrest and he wouldn't kick a ball for us again, but there isn't, and you can see by his play against St Johnstone he's giving it his all. Whether that's for a shop window move i don't know, but as long as he's playing like that for us i doubt Martindale cares.

Think you're seeing something that isn't there.

I think Max was punished for staying out late and getting jaked on the regs. It doesn't sound like he was huffing and sulking like Robinson and, maybe, Forrest. All footballers need a rocket up the hoop now and again, but a childish attitude is unacceptable for some managers. I hope I'm wrong, Forrest signs a new deal and starts passing to team-mates...or works on his long range shooting.

Yeah it was Max attitude that was all wrong too though, not training or eating properly, Martindale told him and his agent he could leave at the end of the season, or buckle down and work hard playing for Livingston. Max himself has admitted he wasn't being professional enough in his attitude.

Anyway, i don't see Forrest as huffing, it all seemed amicable between him and Martindale, everything up front and in the open.

The fans prob weren't enamored by him wanting to leave, and if he'd had a stinker he'd have got pelters, but he didn't, and as long as he plays well then i don't see any reason not to let him continue helping us do the best we can this season.

My tuppence worth….

Forrest can be greedy & can often waste an opportunity of squaring or passing to give someone in a better position a chance, however on his day he’s an exciting player to watch & we should enjoy his skills while he is with us. Like any player he will feel he ought to be playing every game but he gets spells where he is left out or is on rotation, which IMO doesn’t help his consistency. He is the type of player that should be playing regularly when he is on form.