Should McGlynn Go?

LiviLion wrote:Talbot should be dropped long before Jamieson is. It's bad enough he acts like a mindless thug towards opposition players and risks getting sent off, but now he's doing it to his own team? There was no need for his reaction, DJ might have made a mistake but that's no reason to go up and push him while he's on the ground. As one of our experienced players he should be setting an example to the younger players; not pushing them about.

Whether it's the manager or the players, something needs to change. I'm not sure about Grant, he doesn't have the best looking stats as has been said. DJ isn't a bad keeper, he's made a few mistakes yes, but he's won us points all the same with some of his saves.

Some good points; I am however starting to worry about McGlynn, his reaction and how he dealt with the situation (or not as the case may be).

When he came to us some said he had a reputation of being an old-school disciplinarian - frankly I don't see it. I know its an old line but it's difficult to imagine any of our players being prepared to act like that whilst Bollan was in charge - or Hughes for that matter. He seems to have absolutely no control over the current team; whether that is, as someone said, that he has lost the dressing room or if he never had control in the first place but things need to change.

Training in Murieston seems more like a jolly day out than a strict training regime; training at the old field turf by the club could be extensive and I remember my youngest son standing there to get some autographs and many of the players were so out of breath that they couldn't speak properly. Think we need to get back to good old hard graft and unfortunately I now doubt that McGlynn is the guy to arrange that.

Of course then the next question is could we afford someone else? Burchill is too much like a mate to the other players (as often happens with player managers); I'm afraid we really need someone to put the fear of god back into the team.

Based on Saturday every one of our substitutes would get a start against Alloa; Keaghan aside the rest really need to fear for their starting position. Some of the guys in our team seem assured of a starting berth no matter how they play.

LiviLion wrote:Talbot should be dropped long before Jamieson is. It's bad enough he acts like a mindless thug towards opposition players and risks getting sent off, but now he's doing it to his own team? There was no need for his reaction, DJ might have made a mistake but that's no reason to go up and push him while he's on the ground. As one of our experienced players he should be setting an example to the younger players; not pushing them about.

Whether it's the manager or the players, something needs to change. I'm not sure about Grant, he doesn't have the best looking stats as has been said. DJ isn't a bad keeper, he's made a few mistakes yes, but he's won us points all the same with some of his saves.

When was the last time he acted like that? Can't think of any this season, he's had 4 yellow cards which isn't bad for a defender, Kyle's had 5. He gave DJ a wee push on the shoulder, shouldn't have done but you're getting carried away a bit with overkill.

Sives actually went in with the kind of tackle Talbot was red carded for last season, against Falkirk, he was lucky the ref was pretty lenient that game and only gave him a yellow. For me Sives is the first that needs dropped.

As an aside, I don't think we should be playing a high line in defence with Mensing as the last defender, he has no pace and by the looks of that 3rd goal neither has Sives. I remember McGlynn being mugged all season against us when he was the Raith manager playing those tactics, we had plenty pace with Keaghan and Bobby Barr breaking up the pitch and took them to the cleaners. Hope McGlynn isn't going to do the same with us.

Liviforever wrote:The free kick was from miles away and should never have been in from there, wasn't in the top corner anyway which is the only place I'd have said was acceptable to score from over 30 odd yards from a free kick. 2nd was a total comic cut goal. 3rd he got near to but again imo should've been saved, wasn't anywhere near gimme's that DJ has saved in games when I expected the other team to score, that was one I expected him to save. Add all 3 and it was a total mare for him.

He saved us in the Falkirk game no argument there but the game before that he cost us 3 points, or at least 1. His blunder there gave Hibs (in fact twice against Hibs now) the confidence to kck on and beat us easily, up till then it was pretty even and they didn't look like scoring.

Keepers get plaudits for making good saves, DJ has had plenty, but that's their jobs, you can blame the defence but the keeper is also there when the defence doesn't stop everything, bit much to think he should pick up his wages for doing nothing all game and not have a save to make.

I disagree; it was an excellent free kick. We've scored a few like that in the past and people have applauded the scorer; saying the keeper should have saved it is unreasonable; he has a lot to watch including the players coming in from the side.

Yes; making saves is a goalkeepers job but making sure a goalkeeper never has to make a save is a defenders job; scoring goals is a forwards job - unfortunately very few got pass marks on Saturday but you are happy to base your decision on his performance based on a few seconds of highlights (actually I other than goalmouth action there were very few highlights in that game. Several time he had to rush out to clear a ball that our stalwart central defenders had let through; he didn't have a good game but wasn't as bad as many of the others.

How you can blame him for the third goal as well in part of your justification or a "mare" is hard to understand; their player had a free shot courtesy of our left back and central midfield. There were others that he'd blocked but didn't appear on the highlights package.

As for other games he made s string of excellent saves against the rangers which kept the scoreline down; shame really that our stikers didn't do what they're paid for.

I'm not saying he had a good game or anything near it but it was a serious team failing and there were quite a few out there that frankly didn't appear to give a damn.

Liviforever wrote:

LiviLion wrote:Talbot should be dropped long before Jamieson is. It's bad enough he acts like a mindless thug towards opposition players and risks getting sent off, but now he's doing it to his own team? There was no need for his reaction, DJ might have made a mistake but that's no reason to go up and push him while he's on the ground. As one of our experienced players he should be setting an example to the younger players; not pushing them about.

Whether it's the manager or the players, something needs to change. I'm not sure about Grant, he doesn't have the best looking stats as has been said. DJ isn't a bad keeper, he's made a few mistakes yes, but he's won us points all the same with some of his saves.

When was the last time he acted like that? Can't think of any this season, he's had 4 yellow cards which isn't bad for a defender, Kyle's had 5. He gave DJ a wee push on the shoulder, shouldn't have done but you're getting carried away a bit with overkill.

Sives actually went in with the kind of tackle Talbot was red carded for last season, against Falkirk, he was lucky the ref was pretty lenient that game and only gave him a yellow. For me Sives is the first that needs dropped.

As an aside, I don't think we should be playing a high line in defence with Mensing as the last defender, he has no pace and by the looks of that 3rd goal neither has Sives. I remember McGlynn being mugged all season against us when he was the Raith manager playing those tactics, we had plenty pace with Keaghan and Bobby Barr breaking up the pitch and took them to the cleaners. Hope McGlynn isn't going to do the same with us.

Talbot's been pretty lucky this season; that's two weekends on the run that he could have received a straight red. Mensing wasn't great but put some of that down to lack of match fitness. Unfortunately although he wins a lot of balls in the air they go ballooning up without direction.

Whilst on the subject there was a moment of header tennis when the teams headed the ball eight times before it got near to the ground. This isn't something that benefits us.

I can't believe some of the stuff I read on here at times. I'd agree that DJ's form is looking very average at the moment, but he's nowhere near the root of the problem. I can think of at least 5 major things off the top of my head that need changed, and our 'keeper is certainly not one of them.

BasilF wrote:

Liviforever wrote:The free kick was from miles away and should never have been in from there, wasn't in the top corner anyway which is the only place I'd have said was acceptable to score from over 30 odd yards from a free kick. 2nd was a total comic cut goal. 3rd he got near to but again imo should've been saved, wasn't anywhere near gimme's that DJ has saved in games when I expected the other team to score, that was one I expected him to save. Add all 3 and it was a total mare for him.

He saved us in the Falkirk game no argument there but the game before that he cost us 3 points, or at least 1. His blunder there gave Hibs (in fact twice against Hibs now) the confidence to kck on and beat us easily, up till then it was pretty even and they didn't look like scoring.

Keepers get plaudits for making good saves, DJ has had plenty, but that's their jobs, you can blame the defence but the keeper is also there when the defence doesn't stop everything, bit much to think he should pick up his wages for doing nothing all game and not have a save to make.

I disagree; it was an excellent free kick. We've scored a few like that in the past and people have applauded the scorer; saying the keeper should have saved it is unreasonable; he has a lot to watch including the players coming in from the side.

Yes; making saves is a goalkeepers job but making sure a goalkeeper never has to make a save is a defenders job; scoring goals is a forwards job - unfortunately very few got pass marks on Saturday but you are happy to base your decision on his performance based on a few seconds of highlights (actually I other than goalmouth action there were very few highlights in that game. Several time he had to rush out to clear a ball that our stalwart central defenders had let through; he didn't have a good game but wasn't as bad as many of the others.

How you can blame him for the third goal as well in part of your justification or a "mare" is hard to understand; their player had a free shot courtesy of our left back and central midfield. There were others that he'd blocked but didn't appear on the highlights package.

As for other games he made s string of excellent saves against the rangers which kept the scoreline down; shame really that our stikers didn't do what they're paid for.

I'm not saying he had a good game or anything near it but it was a serious team failing and there were quite a few out there that frankly didn't appear to give a damn.

My justification for both the 1st and 3rd goals are the distance they were scored from, imo the free kick is that far out he should have plenty time to get it unless it is a sublimely hit into the postage stamp.
For the 3rd although it is the defenders primarily to blame, Mensing being so slow and Sives for allowing his man to get away into the space to run in on goal, DJ should've got down to it with him having time to see where it was going. He didn't miss it by much but I think he should've got to it for a save. Prob should've been out narrowing the angle too as the boy was never going to run in on goal to go round him with Mensing actually catching him up by the time he hit it.
Had we managed to draw then I prob wouldn't be putting him under the microscope but with the 2nd goal fumble and us losing it puts his other attempted saves under scrutiny.

He'll most likely play a blinder against Alloa (hope so anyway) as he's got it in him to pull off some great saves too. The more desperate we get with losing games the more fans will look for culprits though.

Lexi Collector wrote:I can't believe some of the stuff I read on here at times. I'd agree that DJ's form is looking very average at the moment, but he's nowhere near the root of the problem. I can think of at least 5 major things off the top of my head that need changed, and our 'keeper is certainly not one of them.

Now you know how it feels reading your posts.

Wasn't at the game on Saturday because I knew it'd be a total waste of money - watching those highlights is dire viewing though. First goal is an absolute howitzer of a free-kick, and shifting the blame on DJ for that is just lazy. Second goal, there is a more than strong case for goalkeeping error there, but as others have said, the defence have let him down with some piss poor marking and movement. Third one is a great finish IMO, well-taken and by the sounds of it well-deserved. I imagine our defence will be a helluva lot better once Gallagher is back, but shifting all the onus on someone who's relatively young and just coming back from injury is risky.

The folk calling for DJ to be dropped and chucking a completely unproven player between the sticks, who's past record is average at best, is laughable. If folk are looking for excuses as to why we're beyond diabolical at the moment, take a look at Talbot or McGlynn's tactics before you go calling for the 'keeper's head. A goalkeeper, who many it would seem have been quick to forget, has won us more points than he's cost us, and earned us a place in the final of a national cup competition. I had some punter behind me at the Hibs game constantly lambasting DJ all of the first half (correctly so for their first goal), but it was getting overboard. I'm beginning to think that guy could be Smithy.

Liviforever wrote:

Lexi Collector wrote:I can't believe some of the stuff I read on here at times. I'd agree that DJ's form is looking very average at the moment, but he's nowhere near the root of the problem. I can think of at least 5 major things off the top of my head that need changed, and our 'keeper is certainly not one of them.

Now you know how it feels reading your posts.

lol

Afro wrote:Wasn't at the game on Saturday because I knew it'd be a total waste of money - watching those highlights is dire viewing though. First goal is an absolute howitzer of a free-kick, and shifting the blame on DJ for that is just lazy. Second goal, there is a more than strong case for goalkeeping error there, but as others have said, the defence have let him down with some piss poor marking and movement. Third one is a great finish IMO, well-taken and by the sounds of it well-deserved. I imagine our defence will be a helluva lot better once Gallagher is back, but shifting all the onus on someone who's relatively young and just coming back from injury is risky.

The folk calling for DJ to be dropped and chucking a completely unproven player between the sticks, who's past record is average at best, is laughable. If folk are looking for excuses as to why we're beyond diabolical at the moment, take a look at Talbot or McGlynn's tactics before you go calling for the 'keeper's head. A goalkeeper, who many it would seem have been quick to forget, has won us more points than he's cost us, and earned us a place in the final of a national cup competition. I had some punter behind me at the Hibs game constantly lambasting DJ all of the first half (correctly so for their first goal), but it was getting overboard. I'm beginning to think that guy could be Smithy.

haha you are having a laugh saying the second goal saying there is a strong case for goalkeeping error no mate Guilty is the word you are looking for . Also
that wasn't me that was sitting behind you as it was the first game of the season  and I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. He has made so many changers since then. However all good football teams with a winning mentality start with the defence including the goalkeeper. Stop conceding silly stupid crazy goals and the team is on the first step forward. My view is that DJ has made one too many stupid silly crazy mistakes and we need to drop him. Can't believe some people want to defend DJ .....he has just cost us our place in the Scottish Cup . Yes he saved a pen in the Petrofac semi but we also scored five pens too.

LiviLion wrote:Talbot should be dropped long before Jamieson is. It's bad enough he acts like a mindless thug towards opposition players and risks getting sent off, but now he's doing it to his own team? There was no need for his reaction, DJ might have made a mistake but that's no reason to go up and push him while he's on the ground. As one of our experienced players he should be setting an example to the younger players; not pushing them about.

Whether it's the manager or the players, something needs to change. I'm not sure about Grant, he doesn't have the best looking stats as has been said. DJ isn't a bad keeper, he's made a few mistakes yes, but he's won us points all the same with some of his saves.

you are having a laugh jamieson looked to have more of a go at Talbot than the other way about. Can I ask a wee question here guys . Do all you DJ supporters want to win games ? Or do you just want to have nice guys playing for you? Talbot showed me he cared about winning on Saturday and that's the type of guy I want in the team. It's a big boys game we are not playing pro youth football anymore. We need to get it sorted pronto.

Smithy, very few if any people are going to agree with you on this, with good reason. And before you start, it's fuck all to do with sentimentality. You claiming that it is makes you sound absolutely pathetic, in all honesty.

Second goal is rank keeping, to be fair, I'd be going mental if my keeper didn't save that.

McGlynn is shite but we have more than enough in the tank to stay up once the dreadful Sives and Fordyce are out of the team. If he refuses to drop them, he needs emptied.

I would keep Talbot and DJ for Saturday. I would definitely drop Sives. He looks uninterested most of the time. DJ and Talbot were both out of order on Saturday but at least they care.

Now just a load of random thoughts -

Hippolyte again showed why he is better used as a substitute. He was mediocre at Annan. McKenna has gone off the ball a bit but I would still give him a start. David Robertson is not a hugely talented player but he does put in a shift when he comes on. Mullen deserves a start too having now scored 2 in two games - not great but it's a start. Kyle, Keaghan and Burton are ok. Dycey is solid even if he doesn't have silky skills. Gary Glen has something but it only shows in flashes. He needs to become more consistent. I think Jordan Whyte has it in him to score goals but the way we have been playing he doesn't get a lot of opportunity. Incidentally, he was the last Livi player to have the ball before Annan scored their third goal. He lost it near the box and the player who won it hoofed the ball up leading to the goal. Glad to see Gallacher back on the subs bench.

The frustrating thing about Saturday was that we played really well for 20 minutes and then just gave in. We seem to fear playing the lower division teams. They maybe let pressure of being expected to win get to them

mozam76 wrote:Smithy, very few if any people are going to agree with you on this, with good reason. And before you start,  it's fuck all to do with sentimentality. You claiming that it is makes you sound absolutely pathetic, in all honesty.

well tell me what it is because his silly stupid mistakes are costing us. Don't think its me that's pathetic mate.

Instead of questioning one player in the team smithy, maybe ask yourself why the 10 players in front of DJ seem to be severely lacking any form of mental strength, tactical discipline or commitment? I'd be a whole lot more worried especially about the successive combinations of our back four all seemingly struggling to even perform to an average standard (Gallagher aside). You just have to look at the goals we've conceded this season, the vast majority of them have been fucking laughable. Yes, DJ should quite rightly shoulder some of the blame for them, as part of the defence, but I notice you've never suggested dropping Kyle for Moffat at RB, Rutherford for Talbot at LB, and so on.

Afro wrote:Instead of questioning one player in the team smithy, maybe ask yourself why the 10 players in front of DJ seem to be severely lacking any form of mental strength, tactical discipline or commitment? I'd be a whole lot more worried especially about the successive combinations of our back four all seemingly struggling to even perform to an average standard (Gallagher aside). You just have to look at the goals we've conceded this season, the vast majority of them have been fucking laughable. Yes, DJ should quite rightly shoulder some of the blame for them, as part of the defence, but I notice you've never suggested dropping Kyle for Moffat at RB, Rutherford for Talbot at LB, and so on.

listen I gave my opinion on the game in question, however it would appear I've thrown a grenade into the forum. I will leave it at that for this week and let's move on. If you look through my posts I am very supportive of the the management and team in general. An old pal of mine had a very good quote ........ My eyes are my merchant..... My eyes were mine on Saturday and that was my conclusion. I may be in a minority but in future if I see flaws I may just keep them to myself. I will however keep stating the positives and be a happy clapper . To get back on track of being positive ....what a first class goal we scored brilliant passing ......ball played out from the 18 yard line to White in his own half who headed on to to Glen who delivered a cross field ball to OBrien who had a nice interplay with Talbot then Talbot swung a ball over into the middle where it was met by White who had run from halfway into the edge of the penalty area, White controlled it so well and laid on a neat pass for Keaghan to run onto with ease and finish with a low drive into the net. Six players involved in the goal fantastic football . First twenty minutes were a joy to watch let's hope for more of the same on Saturday.

And by calling other supporters happy clappers you damn the rest of us with faint praise. If you could extend your sabbatical from the board for a bit longer than a week, that would be great.

mozam76 wrote:And by calling other supporters happy clappers you damn the rest of us with faint praise. If you could extend your sabbatical from the board for a bit longer than a week, that would be great.

stay with the program mate I was calling myself a happy clapper as that is what I have been called previously. It's all too serious really lol

Smithy wrote:

mozam76 wrote:And by calling other supporters happy clappers you damn the rest of us with faint praise. If you could extend your sabbatical from the board for a bit longer than a week, that would be great.

stay with the program mate I was calling myself a happy clapper as that is what I have been called previously. It's all too serious really lol

I thought the phrase was sweetie rustler?

Actually its good to have some debate again at last. All the boards have been too quiet of late.

Smithy wrote:

Afro wrote:Instead of questioning one player in the team smithy, maybe ask yourself why the 10 players in front of DJ seem to be severely lacking any form of mental strength, tactical discipline or commitment? I'd be a whole lot more worried especially about the successive combinations of our back four all seemingly struggling to even perform to an average standard (Gallagher aside). You just have to look at the goals we've conceded this season, the vast majority of them have been fucking laughable. Yes, DJ should quite rightly shoulder some of the blame for them, as part of the defence, but I notice you've never suggested dropping Kyle for Moffat at RB, Rutherford for Talbot at LB, and so on.

listen I gave my opinion on the game in question, however it would appear I've thrown a grenade into the forum. I will leave it at that for this week and let's move on. If you look through my posts I am very supportive of the the management and team in general. An old pal of mine had a very good quote ........ My eyes are my merchant..... My eyes were mine on Saturday and that was my conclusion. I may be in a minority but in future if I see flaws I may just keep them to myself. I will however keep stating the positives and be a happy clapper . To get back on track of being positive ....what a first class goal we scored brilliant passing ......ball played out from the 18 yard line to White in his own half who headed on to to Glen who delivered a cross field ball to OBrien who had a nice interplay with Talbot then Talbot swung a ball over into the middle where it was met by White who had run from halfway into the edge of the penalty area, White controlled it so well and laid on a neat pass for Keaghan to run onto with ease and finish with a low drive into the net. Six players involved in the goal fantastic football . First twenty minutes were a joy to watch let's hope for more of the same on Saturday.

All about opinions Smithy, no need to feel you have to leave it a week, you've certainly kept it lively over the weekend. I'm half with you in this, DJ had a bad game and imo should've done better with all the goals. Our defence were also posted missing by the sound of it though so that also needs fixed. Imo dropping Sives would go a long way towards that problem. I think Gallagher would have to be back before that will happen though.


Without going back over the thread I think we've had drop DJ, Sives, Talbot and Dycey. So the whole defence and keeper needs changed. I think we can all agree we're not happy with how many goals we're conceding and something needs done to stop the rot. So either radical change or a bit of cosmetic surgery, which will McGlynn choose?

Liviforever wrote:All about opinions Smithy, no need to feel you have to leave it a week, you've certainly kept it lively over the weekend. I'm half with you in this, DJ had a bad game and imo should've done better with all the goals. Our defence were also posted missing by the sound of it though so that also needs fixed. Imo dropping Sives would go a long way towards that problem. I think Gallagher would have to be back before that will happen though.


Without going back over the thread I think we've had drop DJ, Sives, Talbot and Dycey. So the whole defence and keeper needs changed. I think we can all agree we're not happy with how many goals we're conceding and something needs done to stop the rot. So either radical change or a bit of cosmetic surgery, which will McGlynn choose?

Undoubtedly a number of players deserve to be dropped but I also have to temper that with the fact that our next game is against Alloa on their fast artificial pitch. Alloa traditionally like to hit sides on the break so we need to be aware that speed will be needed at the back.

Like many I'm itching to see Gallagher back but not only will he be short of match practice but will he be up to the rapid turns etc. necessary to meet the threat?

Mensing isn't the fastest even when fully match fit (also didn't he manage to get sent off against them last season by bringing one of their ex-hibbie forwards down?); he needs to start but needs some speedy cover. I've been impressed by Rutherford although he does need experience as shown when he's attacking down the wing and lingers too long whilst making up his mind what to do next.

Fordyce hasn't been great but, in view of what we have, could probably retain his start.

Could we have another one of the youngsters on the bench e.g. Moffat for example?

Also would like to see Robertson start in place of O'Brien; actually Burton's passing wasn't bad on Saturday but it really is time for the players with fire in their belly.

As for the rest well take your pick; we do have a number of options but, for whatever reason, a number of them don't seem to get close to a start.

Relying only on the highlights DJ had a shocker; should he be dropped? Only if the back up is sufficiently competent to replace him. The problem we have with the goalie position is that the back up tends to be pretty weak (I was not impressed with Walker last season but don't know anything about the other lad) thus leaving the experienced keeper in place despite form dips.

Also...when the keeper makes an error it is almost always a goal thus his errors get blown out of proportion; the whole team let us & themselves down on Saturday, we can't drop them all.

Agree with both Bertie and Basil in their above posts.

Wouldn't mind seeing Moffat get a shot at RB or even come on as a sub, it's our weakest position with nobody being a natural RB playing there, I believe Moffat plays RB so why not give him a shot. I'd find it difficult to believe he could be worse than Dycey playing there.

Prepared to give him until the new year, and if results and tactics don't improve then he should definitely walk/be forced to walk.