Should McGlynn Go?

Should walk tonight.

Derek Adams was at the game today...

HoudaBetsy wrote:Should walk tonight.

Why?

Imo we played no bad against Alloa, knocked it about well and patiently set up chances, dominated the first half and a good part of the 2nd too, all that was missing was the strikers scoring a goal and that's not McGlynn's fault. I've been critical of his long ball punts but against Annan from what was said by the folk at the match we played nice stuff for the first 20 mins and the players themselves seemed to start launching it long after going behind. Today we kept plugging away and tried to play it on the deck all game. Like I said it was woeful finishing that screwed us and can't see a new manager being able to change that.

If the effort is there and the football is ok then I'm afraid it's just down to the budget and quality player we've been able to afford that is putting us down the bottom end of the table. Looks like we all got carried away with the start we had in our first few games. Reality is we're going to be scrapping it out with the PT teams down the bottom.

I think we need the embargo lifted or we're going to be relegated. Is it a case of paying the tax that Nixon didn't pay or is it more complicated?

Bottom line is we need the team a bit freshened up and we haven't the squad to make changes. White has gone off the boil but keeps his place because all we have is Ogleby, who quite frankly isn't even worth a sub appearance. Hippo doesn't seem able to make an impact either, though maybe if he's given a string of starts might show something, who knows.

Imo we need a couple of loan signings from Premiership teams, Cowden and Dumbarton have done this, Alloa will prob get some in too, that gives them an advantage over us and it could make the difference to their survival, and our relegation.

Sacking the manager may give us the bounce to get a couple of results, then go back to our form just now, the problem for me is lack of competition for places and nobody to freshen up the team.

Liviforever wrote:I think we need the embargo lifted or we're going to be relegated. Is it a case of paying the tax that Nixon didn't pay or is it more complicated?

Bottom line is we need the team a bit freshened up and we haven't the squad to make changes. White has gone off the boil but keeps his place because all we have is Ogleby, who quite frankly isn't even worth a sub appearance. Hippo doesn't seem able to make an impact either, though maybe if he's given a string of starts might show something, who knows.

Imo we need a couple of loan signings from Premiership teams, Cowden and Dumbarton have done this, Alloa will prob get some in too, that gives them an advantage over us and it could make the difference to their survival, and our relegation.

Sacking the manager may give us the bounce to get a couple of results, then go back to our form just now, the problem for me is lack of competition for places and nobody to freshen up the team.

Which is not what was being said at the start of the season where folk thought we had a reasonable strength of squad...

If the team is playing ok & creating chances then eventually they will start converting them but in the games I've seen lately we've not really been creating much.

Not surprised we lost to Alloa, I predicted it after all but something needs to happen soon to shake things up a bit because right now we are going down with a whimper & the Cup final is beginning to look like it will be a major embarrassment regardless of our opposition on the day.

Bertie Bassett wrote:

Liviforever wrote:I think we need the embargo lifted or we're going to be relegated. Is it a case of paying the tax that Nixon didn't pay or is it more complicated?

Bottom line is we need the team a bit freshened up and we haven't the squad to make changes. White has gone off the boil but keeps his place because all we have is Ogleby, who quite frankly isn't even worth a sub appearance. Hippo doesn't seem able to make an impact either, though maybe if he's given a string of starts might show something, who knows.

Imo we need a couple of loan signings from Premiership teams, Cowden and Dumbarton have done this, Alloa will prob get some in too, that gives them an advantage over us and it could make the difference to their survival, and our relegation.

Sacking the manager may give us the bounce to get a couple of results, then go back to our form just now, the problem for me is lack of competition for places and nobody to freshen up the team.

Which is not what was being said at the start of the season where folk thought we had a reasonable strength of squad...

We have a decent sized squad and seem to have particular competition in midfield but McGlynn has failed to grow a pair and give the likes of Beumont, Praprotnik and even Robertson enough game time to show that they could change our fortunes.

LiviCub wrote:

Bertie Bassett wrote:

Liviforever wrote:I think we need the embargo lifted or we're going to be relegated. Is it a case of paying the tax that Nixon didn't pay or is it more complicated?

Bottom line is we need the team a bit freshened up and we haven't the squad to make changes. White has gone off the boil but keeps his place because all we have is Ogleby, who quite frankly isn't even worth a sub appearance. Hippo doesn't seem able to make an impact either, though maybe if he's given a string of starts might show something, who knows.

Imo we need a couple of loan signings from Premiership teams, Cowden and Dumbarton have done this, Alloa will prob get some in too, that gives them an advantage over us and it could make the difference to their survival, and our relegation.

Sacking the manager may give us the bounce to get a couple of results, then go back to our form just now, the problem for me is lack of competition for places and nobody to freshen up the team.

Which is not what was being said at the start of the season where folk thought we had a reasonable strength of squad...

We have a decent sized squad and seem to have particular competition in midfield but McGlynn has failed to grow a pair and give the likes of Beumont, Praprotnik and even Robertson enough game time to show that they could change our fortunes.

Absolutely; looking at the official site we have a huge squad (admittedly some are 16 years old). We also have a fair bit of tallent there; certainly enough for this league. What would signing more players (that we cant afford) acheive if they're not going to get a shot at the first team?

We're lacking a goal scorer, Accies had that problem last season and signed one in Jan, in fact they signed 2 during the season. Andreu (god how I wish we still had him, he's still rattling them in for them in the Premiership) was propping them up from midfield, we've not even got that just now as our midfielders can't score either. I'd bring in a Jason Scotland type player who can poach goals and has the physical presence to make things happen.

Bringing finances into it, how much can we afford to be relegated, we'd drop well over a 300K a year from prize money (pos as much as 500K for a mid table finish in div 1) as well as money from away crowds (prob home too).

Liviforever wrote:We're lacking a goal scorer, Accies had that problem last season and signed one in Jan, in fact they signed 2 during the season. Andreu (god how I wish we still had him, he's still rattling them in for them in the Premiership) was propping them up from midfield, we've not even got that just now as our midfielders can't score either. I'd bring in a Jason Scotland type player who can poach goals and has the physical presence to make things happen.

Bringing finances into it, how much can we afford to be relegated, we'd drop well over a 300K a year from prize money as well as money from away crowds (prob home too).

And if we go into admin again....

Durnford wrote:

Liviforever wrote:We're lacking a goal scorer, Accies had that problem last season and signed one in Jan, in fact they signed 2 during the season. Andreu (god how I wish we still had him, he's still rattling them in for them in the Premiership) was propping them up from midfield, we've not even got that just now as our midfielders can't score either. I'd bring in a Jason Scotland type player who can poach goals and has the physical presence to make things happen.

Bringing finances into it, how much can we afford to be relegated, we'd drop well over a 300K a year from prize money as well as money from away crowds (prob home too).

And if we go into admin again....

I'd say being relegated  would make admin a certainty.

Would be cheaper to bring in a decent player, or some loan signings, than compo paid out for sacking McGlynn.

But until the embargo is lifted the point is moot...so we have to get on with it with what we have at the moment.

We may have a big squad but quantity doesn't equal quality. That said, given how poor we are doing it surely suggests that some of the untried players should be given a chance to show what they can do now before the situation gets to the point where it wouldn't be fair on them with the burden of expectation that would be on them to get us out the hole we would be in.

Then again, maybe it is obvious in training that the guys who remain untried & simply not good enough to make a difference.

Liviforever wrote:We're lacking a goal scorer, Accies had that problem last season and signed one in Jan, in fact they signed 2 during the season. Andreu (god how I wish we still had him, he's still rattling them in for them in the Premiership) was propping them up from midfield, we've not even got that just now as our midfielders can't score either. I'd bring in a Jason Scotland type player who can poach goals and has the physical presence to make things happen.

Bringing finances into it, how much can we afford to be relegated, we'd drop well over a 300K a year from prize money (pos as much as 500K for a mid table finish in div 1) as well as money from away crowds (prob home too).

We've always lacked someone who's more physical than pacey and still manage to get a decent record of goals. Barrowman could've done that for us last season but he kept getting injured so lacked any consistent run in the team. Other than him, I can't remember anyone who would be able to bully a CB all game long. The likes of Hippolyte and Mullen would benefit having a partner who's more than happy to do the dirty work.

Bertie Bassett wrote:But until the embargo is lifted the point is moot...so we have to get on with it with what we have at the moment.

We may have a big squad but quantity doesn't equal quality. That said, given how poor we are doing it surely suggests that some of the untried players should be given a chance to show what they can do now before the situation gets to the point where it wouldn't be fair on them with the burden of expectation that would be on them to get us out the hole we would be in.

Then again, maybe it is obvious in training that the guys who remain untried & simply not good enough to make a difference.

McGlynn was the one who signed a lot of these players so it's entirely his fault if he thinks they're not good enough for this level. He's the one who watches these players in training every day and when they were on trial so he must've known what value he was getting.

Bertie Bassett wrote:But until the embargo is lifted the point is moot...so we have to get on with it with what we have at the moment.

We may have a big squad but quantity doesn't equal quality. That said, given how poor we are doing it surely suggests that some of the untried players should be given a chance to show what they can do now before the situation gets to the point where it wouldn't be fair on them with the burden of expectation that would be on them to get us out the hole we would be in.

Then again, maybe it is obvious in training that the guys who remain untried & simply not good enough to make a difference.

That's why I asked if it was just a case of paying the tax or was it more complicated. If the former then get it paid so we can at least get loan signings in. Other teams will be doing it and it will make enough difference to them picking up a few points, whereas we'll plod along losing ground on them.

LiviCub wrote:McGlynn was the one who signed a lot of these players so it's entirely his fault if he thinks they're not good enough for this level. He's the one who watches these players in training every day and when they were on trial so he must've known what value he was getting.

Yeah was wondering why Praprotnik wasn't getting a chance when he's been here nearly 2 seasons.

LiviCub wrote:

Liviforever wrote:We're lacking a goal scorer, Accies had that problem last season and signed one in Jan, in fact they signed 2 during the season. Andreu (god how I wish we still had him, he's still rattling them in for them in the Premiership) was propping them up from midfield, we've not even got that just now as our midfielders can't score either. I'd bring in a Jason Scotland type player who can poach goals and has the physical presence to make things happen.

Bringing finances into it, how much can we afford to be relegated, we'd drop well over a 300K a year from prize money (pos as much as 500K for a mid table finish in div 1) as well as money from away crowds (prob home too).

We've always lacked someone who's more physical than pacey and still manage to get a decent record of goals. Barrowman could've done that for us last season but he kept getting injured so lacked any consistent run in the team. Other than him, I can't remember anyone who would be able to bully a CB all game long. The likes of Hippolyte and Mullen would benefit having a partner who's more than happy to do the dirty work.

The Doc too, not to bothered about having those type of hold up players so much as one who can score goals, just so happens Scotland can do both. Was more a seasoned pro with a proven record who is jobless just now and would be more interested in getting a game than a wage. Bound to be plenty around, ones looking to get in the "shop window" for a few months, which would increase their chances of employment come July/Aug. Or young guys with talent looking for first team experience to be put out on loan from teams in the Premiership.

Just something to freshen things up and give some competition for places in attack.

LiviCub wrote:

Liviforever wrote:We're lacking a goal scorer, Accies had that problem last season and signed one in Jan, in fact they signed 2 during the season. Andreu (god how I wish we still had him, he's still rattling them in for them in the Premiership) was propping them up from midfield, we've not even got that just now as our midfielders can't score either. I'd bring in a Jason Scotland type player who can poach goals and has the physical presence to make things happen.

Bringing finances into it, how much can we afford to be relegated, we'd drop well over a 300K a year from prize money (pos as much as 500K for a mid table finish in div 1) as well as money from away crowds (prob home too).

We've always lacked someone who's more physical than pacey and still manage to get a decent record of goals. Barrowman could've done that for us last season but he kept getting injured so lacked any consistent run in the team. Other than him, I can't remember anyone who would be able to bully a CB all game long. The likes of Hippolyte and Mullen would benefit having a partner who's more than happy to do the dirty work.

Actually I thought Ogleby was fast and agressive during the fifteen or so minutes he played for us against Albion Rovers; the probelm is his appearances since haven't exactly shown that he has a shot on him. That being said Barrowman didn't exactly score a bucket load but McNulty was well able to benefit from the knock downs.

Liviforever wrote:The Doc too, not to bothered about having those type of hold up players so much as one who can score goals, just so happens Scotland can do both. Was more a seasoned pro with a proven record who is jobless just now and would be more interested in getting a game than a wage. Bound to be plenty around, ones looking to get in the "shop window" for a few months, which would increase their chances of employment come July/Aug. Or young guys with talent looking for first team experience to be put out on loan from teams in the Premiership.

Just something to freshen things up and give some competition for places in attack.

Fair enough on Jason Scotland but remember the couple of ex-hibs "big names" who played for Morton and Alloa last season. Likewise don't we have our own ex-big name in the form of Burchill; I rather see him play for us than any number of Riordans etc.

Burchill doesn't do it for me, would rather see Hippo getting a run of games than him.

Just don't know about Ogleby, looked ok against Albion Rovers, apart from his shooting anyway, but in games since where I've seen him he didn't do much, of even get near to scoring. Burchill runs about a lot but mostly doesn't threaten much.

We'll prob start with Ogleby or Burchill if White is injured.

LiviCub wrote:

Bertie Bassett wrote:But until the embargo is lifted the point is moot...so we have to get on with it with what we have at the moment.

We may have a big squad but quantity doesn't equal quality. That said, given how poor we are doing it surely suggests that some of the untried players should be given a chance to show what they can do now before the situation gets to the point where it wouldn't be fair on them with the burden of expectation that would be on them to get us out the hole we would be in.

Then again, maybe it is obvious in training that the guys who remain untried & simply not good enough to make a difference.

McGlynn was the one who signed a lot of these players so it's entirely his fault if he thinks they're not good enough for this level. He's the one who watches these players in training every day and when they were on trial so he must've known what value he was getting.

I don't disagree.

Liviforever wrote:Burchill doesn't do it for me, would rather see Hippo getting a run of games than him.

Just don't know about Ogleby, looked ok against Albion Rovers, apart from his shooting anyway, but in games since where I've seen him he didn't do much, of even get near to scoring. Burchill runs about a lot but mostly doesn't threaten much.

We'll prob start with Ogleby or Burchill if White is injured.

Hippolyte has been appauling for all the games where he's started - hes been far more effective as an impact sub.

Starting it seems that the fresh defenders and midfield have time to get used to him and start to stiffle him out. This was very apparent at the Annan game where he caused problems for the first fifteen minutes and then was marked fully and closed down at every opportunity - effectively he became a passenger.

I mentioned Burchill bacause you'd mentioned briing in another "star" at the end of his career; personally I don't think we'd do any better than Burchill in this regard. Scotland was the exception; apart from the two ex-hibbie donkeys didn't lataphy try to make a come back and Morton had Novo for the first part of last season who fell over at every opportunity. None of these set the heather alight.

Of our current choice of forwards; White; Glen and Mullen have all proved that they can find the net if they get the opportunity. Burchill has nver been a goalscorer for us; Ogleby is unproven in my book. Hippolyte can score spectacular goals but can also lay on good opportunities for others; unfortunately all too often they're not on the same wave length. In my opinion that's down to lack of training; need to look at dumping the current fuzzy tree huging routine and get back to some good old fashoned football training.

As for the relegation assuring administration; I'm afraid I don't agree. There are loads of teams in the lower divisions that manage to balance the books by cutting the cloth; parttime players etc. More overspending in this division will undoubtedly mean administration; paying for players we can't afford with virtually zero credit rating will undoubtedly lead to the usual signs of lack of deiiveries (beer etc in the bars); programme suppliers being changed as the original ones complain they haven't been paid; staff not being paid "due to a mix up at the bank"; HMRC questioning VAT payments etc. etc. Its all very well suggesting that the loss of prize money would more than cover the cost of new players but banks dont lioke to operate on air (unless you're the rangers that is).

The other thing this year is that the actual income from the big three games have been significantly lower than originally predicted (with the possible exception of Hearts). Another problem with having Heart and Hibs in our league is that they are the clubs who have previously loaned us the most effective players; they're unlikely to do that this year.

Hippolyte doesn't get played in the right position, he's in midfield or even defence at times, I'd have him as a striker.

Must be plenty players floating about that still have goals in them, just a matter of scouting them out, have we anyone doing that nowadays?

As for avoiding admin if we drop a division, yes there's plenty clubs able to do it but Livi is over 2M in debt and can hardly survive in a league that would prob pay us at least 3 times more in prize money than what we'd get dropping down. I'm not convinced we'll avoid admin this season let alone next and if we're relegated it's game over imo.

Other teams either have a bigger home crowd or lower overheads than us too, we just don't generate enough income to play in a lower division with the stadium and set up we have. Carrying the debt we have (which was mainly accrued in the lower 2 divisions) isn't helping either. We've cut our budget twice now and have seen the stadium get progressively worse, infrastructure and the way it is being run/used, the place is going to the dogs.

Liviforever wrote:Hippolyte doesn't get played in the right position, he's in midfield or even defence at times, I'd have him as a striker.

Must be plenty players floating about that still have goals in them, just a matter of scouting them out, have we anyone doing that nowadays?

As for avoiding admin if we drop a division, yes there's plenty clubs able to do it but Livi is over 2M in debt and can hardly survive in a league that would prob pay us at least 3 times more in prize money than what we'd get dropping down. I'm not convinced we'll avoid admin this season let alone next and if we're relegated it's game over imo.

Other teams either have a bigger home crowd or lower overheads than us too, we just don't generate enough income to play in a lower division with the stadium and set up we have. Carrying the debt we have (which was mainly accrued in the lower 2 divisions) isn't helping either. We've cut our budget twice now and have seen the stadium get progressively worse, infrastructure and the way it is being run/used, the place is going to the dogs.

Fortunately most of the debt is in the form of Directors loans; a substantial amount of which was due to be converted to shares before Nixon kicked off.

Much of the accumulated debt would have been as a result of consistant mismanagement (e.g. change of managers; silly season ticket pricing; strange agreements with players agents etc. etc.) and particularly poor marketing. If properly managed this club should at least be able to break even; even allowing for the expensive white elephant that is the 10000 seater stadium.

Anyway there is nothing here in our control; we can continue the talk about the bleedin' obvious but until the club starts marketing itself properly we'll continue to suffer.

Moving back to the team I think Hippolyte has been most effective on the left wing; when in the middle he's been crowded out and never given the space to utilise his speed or route-one tactics. Often as a central striker he tracks back to collect the ball, runs about a bit beating a couole of players before running out of space and passing it to one of the Jacobs brothers - by then he's to far back to benefit. When right up front in the centre he gets the square root of zero service with virtually no balls getting through to him.

I firmly believe we have the boys that can score goals; we do however need to sort out the service to them - surely that must be priority one at the moment?

IMO Hippo was at his most effective against Hearts when we beat them, he scored 1 & made 1 from a central position just behind the striker(s).

OK it was Hearts youngsters for the most part but he is still a youngster himself really.

Against Alloa we had plenty service to the strikers so the same again against Dumbarton would be good, and hopefully some goals will come. I think it's a fallacy Hippo is an impact player (you could actually say the same about Mullen making an impact in a game), he had a couple of games coming on and scoring, the Hearts game was his best, but he's come on a lot more times and had no impact. I'd rather he got the whole game to do something and give him a run of games too, up front.

Either that or get Mullen playing off White as an out and out striker, no dropping deep all the time. White stands up front himself and can't do much when he gets the ball unless someone is playing off him, Mullen can actually run with the ball and take players on so get him in and around the box (which is what I'd also like Hippo doing). No good beating players 50 yards from the goal, get up to the 18 yard line and do it.

Yeah, definitely need 2 up top if we are using White as a target man but IMO that is a waste of his talent. Would still rather see 2 forwards starting though.

Can't be arsed going through the posts but some clown dared to shoot me down when I said McGlynn had lost the dressing room. I don't know if anyone else needs any proof, but on that showing alone today it's easily visible