Livi v Morton

Liviforever wrote:I think you have to be rational though, we weren't losing till the red card, Bobby Barr is a thorn in teams side despite you not rating him and was ripping Gordon apart for pace when he fouled him. Set up a goal, scored a goal, and should've scored another when he ran the length of the pitch then hit it wide with only DJ left in front of him.

The fact we didn't give up despite being 4 goals down and nearly got it back to 4-3 making an exciting end to the game deserved something. I think the fans just reacted to the effort the players put in getting the 2 goals back and White, Hippo, Sheerin, Gibbons and Glen didn't deserve anything other than applause.

I doubt they walked off feeling good anyway and will be just as annoyed as the fans about losing that game.

After seeing some of the pictures kicking about social media last night, I don't think they could care less what the score was. I don't expect players to be down in the dumps for days, but when I'm feeling like shit the whole night and our "players" are out getting pissed and having a great time, it's a little harder to take them seriously.

Liviforever wrote:I think you have to be rational though, we weren't losing till the red card, Bobby Barr is a thorn in teams side despite you not rating him and was ripping Gordon apart for pace when he fouled him. Set up a goal, scored a goal, and should've scored another when he ran the length of the pitch then hit it wide with only DJ left in front of him.

The fact we didn't give up despite being 4 goals down and nearly got it back to 4-3 making an exciting end to the game deserved something. I think the fans just reacted to the effort the players put in getting the 2 goals back and White, Hippo, Sheerin, Gibbons and Glen didn't deserve anything other than applause.

I doubt they walked off feeling good anyway and will be just as annoyed as the fans about losing that game.

Hippo looked distraught after the game; I think he realised that Morton were there for the taking which makes the loss all the more disappointing. There were times even with 10 men that we were the dominant side. I also think that you are right about the fans that applauded at the end, it was in recognition of the effort that very nearly got us back into the match. Its little things like that which can be turning points. For a while they looked like they had given up the ghost, but Hippo, Gibbons & Glen kept trying & when Sheerin came on it gave White a new lease of life so that they both became a threat.

I don't expect us to get anything other than a severe do-ing at Hunbrox but I'm less convinced that Hubs are as good this season as they were last season, so all is not lost for that game.

They deserved a boo so loud it'd still be ringing in their ears the next time they step into Almondvale. It was a disgraceful performance and to only show up for the final 5 minutes sums their attitude up. Burchill needs to grow a set and kick them up the arse. 1 point from 5 games - 0 points from 3 home games against QOS, Falkirk and Morton.

No doubt we'll lose by a goal or 2 whilst putting in another pathetic performance next week and everyone will say we were brave and did well.

I agree Lexi, we need to make changes and I would make seven changes from the team that started v Morton.

Would play 352 as playing with one up just lets them get right onto us from the word go.

Gould
Gallagher Neil Sives
Georgiev Cole Pittman Glen Hippolyte
White Sheerin

I didn't think Cole played that well but he will play well at Ibrox I'm sure.

The reasons for dropping the players below
DJ needs to be dropped , nothing more needs said on the subject.
Gordon is suspended
Millen and Longridge are very suspect
Gibbons passing from midfield was terrible and that's being kind
Mullen is liked by myself but in a wing back situation for next week I would play Spas
Buchanan is only dropped because I think Sheerin and White could be an excellent partnership and let's try it out again from the start.

I don't agree with Lexi, to say they didn't turn up for 85 mins is nonsense, they were doing fine till the sending off and then looked all over the place for a bit after losing the 1st goal but had chances to get back in the game after that and Burchill gambled on trying to score goals with his changes same as Bollan used to do. It very nearly paid off at the end when we had that 5 min spell, Morton were all over the place and a few inches was the difference from a 3rd goal which would've had Morton completely on the ropes.

Agree a few need dropped though, Glen, Hippo, Gibbons, White & Sheerin deserve starts, the rest don't but I'd give Gallagher a break as we know he's a good defender and was up against it after Gordon was sent off. I'd like to see Neill given a chance, perhaps alongside Sives for Ibrox and although I don't like seeing Gallagher put in at RB he'd be more solid there than Millen provided he doesn't push up the wing and leave our defence exposed to counter attacks, same goes with us leaving Sives exposed on the counter playing a high line.

Bertie Bassett wrote:

Liviforever wrote:I think you have to be rational though, we weren't losing till the red card, Bobby Barr is a thorn in teams side despite you not rating him and was ripping Gordon apart for pace when he fouled him. Set up a goal, scored a goal, and should've scored another when he ran the length of the pitch then hit it wide with only DJ left in front of him.

The fact we didn't give up despite being 4 goals down and nearly got it back to 4-3 making an exciting end to the game deserved something. I think the fans just reacted to the effort the players put in getting the 2 goals back and White, Hippo, Sheerin, Gibbons and Glen didn't deserve anything other than applause.

I doubt they walked off feeling good anyway and will be just as annoyed as the fans about losing that game.

Hippo looked distraught after the game; I think he realised that Morton were there for the taking which makes the loss all the more disappointing. There were times even with 10 men that we were the dominant side. I also think that you are right about the fans that applauded at the end, it was in recognition of the effort that very nearly got us back into the match. Its little things like that which can be turning points. For a while they looked like they had given up the ghost, but Hippo, Gibbons & Glen kept trying & when Sheerin came on it gave White a new lease of life so that they both became a threat.

I don't expect us to get anything other than a severe do-ing at Hunbrox but I'm less convinced that Hubs are as good this season as they were last season, so all is not lost for that game.

Yeah I'd say Hibs are there to get points from but we absolutely can't afford to gift them anything and then end up chasing the game like we were against Morton, no blunders and we'd have a decent chance against them.

Apart from Sevco I really don't see any teams we shouldn't be looking to take points against.

I arrived late - missed the first goal and the sending off but it wasn't all doom and gloom from what I saw.

Positives
1. most of the players were running into the ground
2. Two goals plus one ruled off-side and Hippolyte hitting the bar - it could have been a lot closer considering we played for an hour with one player short.
3. Sherrin's goal was a peach; pleased he got something for all his efforts
4. Faria looked pretty impressive again

Negatives
1. Playing for an hour with one player less
2. Taking longridge off at half time and replacing with a striker - surely it would have been better to take off the fairly ineffectual Glen for White and keep the back solid.
3. No leadership - surely by now a blind man can see that Cole has absolutely no leadership ability
4. Too many aimless goal-kicks
5. Sherrin brought on too late; Mullen (and Hippolyte) were already dead on their feet
6. We really missed Pittman
7. Lack of passion shown by Burchill - he really needs to start showing people that he cares.
8. Thought Gallagher had a particularly poor game if I'm honest.

Lexi Collector wrote:They deserved a boo so loud it'd still be ringing in their ears the next time they step into Almondvale. It was a disgraceful performance and to only show up for the final 5 minutes sums their attitude up. Burchill needs to grow a set and kick them up the arse. 1 point from 5 games - 0 points from 3 home games against QOS, Falkirk and Morton.

No doubt we'll lose by a goal or 2 whilst putting in another pathetic performance next week and everyone will say we were brave and did well.

To say they only turned up for the last 5 minutes is unfair. The game was fairly even until the sending off & Morton then probably edged the rest of the half. We tried to take it to them in the second but it backfired with them picking us off. Sometimes too easily I grant you but that is always a risk when you are chasing the game & a man down. There was a spell before Sheerin came on where it looked like we had given up but that could have been down to tiredness from chasing the game with a man less & the "stuffing" being knocked out of them when despite those efforts they conceded more goals. Once Sheerin was on, we seemed to raise the level again & very nearly got back into it. Possibly because Morton assumed they had it in the bag but they were panicking big style at 4-2.

Lexi Collector wrote:APPLAUDING OFF THE PARK?! Some of our c**** applauded that joke of a team off the park at full-time. Gordon's was never a red card. Burchill doesn't have a clue, fuck raging after that today. No excuses, we're utter shite and have been for far too long. We need to drive it home and start booing these useless bastards off the park, the attitude is rotten.

The nerve of supporters, supporting and encouraging their team - what are they like? Interesting view Lexi, but doesn't go far enough - I think we should be allowed to bring rocks into the stadium and throw them at players who you think aren't pulling their weight (you point them out, we'll bring 'em down for you). Also, very kind of you to refer to your fellow supporters as c***** - I guess you've been reading 'How to win friends and influence people' again? As for your other points, we'd have wanted their player sent off if he'd tackled Gordon the way Gordon tackled him, so a red card seems fair; we're hardly 'utter s****' - haven't had a great start but it's bit early for this sort of criticism. Looking forward to your next inspirational postings.

Seeing a lot being made about Burchill not showing passion, shouting at players etc, don't think it's his style of management really and does it really matter?

Do players even listen when the likes of Duffy is shouting all game, does it even make any difference, they were winning despite him moaning whenever they made a mistake.

Burchill hardly showed a reaction when we put 4 past Alloa in the cup final, the camera zooms in on him after each goal and he barely cracked a smile, were any of our fans that bothered he wasn't shouting at players in that game, I doubt it.

I think the fans are just looking for this shouty style when we're losing because that's what most managers do, doubt it would've made a difference to our result on Sat though, but folk would prob claim it did if he'd been doing it when we scored those 2 goals.

Player selection, tactics and timing of substitutions bother me far more that seeing Burchill standing not showing passion. As long as the players show passion/effort then I'm reasonably happy too.

I was one of the ones applauding the team at the end. I applauded them for their effort and the attempts to score some goals near the end. I also heartily booed the referee and linesmen as they were dire and blew two of three big decisions in the game.

I was close to the tackle for the red card and in no way did I think it was a red card. I'd like to see the highlights and I hope we appeal the sending off. There was no violent conduct, it never prevented a goal scoring oppurtunity and the tackle wasn't dangerous. The ref should have given a yellow card for the foul, not a red card.

The "off-side goal" looked onside to me, again, I'd like to see it again. It was one of those moments where if the goal stood, then we had a chance to get back into the game at 2-0 down, instead it was ruled out, our heads dropped again and we lost 2 more goals before getting back in it.

I did like the White / Sheeryn strike partnership. They seemed to work well together and create chances.

We looked solid with the Millen, Gallagher, Gordon, Longridge back four. Once Gordon was sent off and Cole went to Centre Half we fell to pieces at the back and gifted them 3 goals, we looked a lot worse without Longridge at left back.

I'd like to see us bring in a left-back in on loan. I think Longridge could be a bit injury-prone and the lack of cover at left-back is starting to cost us goals.

Still onwards and hopefully upwards and a trip to Castle Greyskull at the weekend (yuk)

Steam Pudding wrote:The nerve of supporters, supporting and encouraging their team - what are they like? Interesting view Lexi, but doesn't go far enough - I think we should be allowed to bring rocks into the stadium and throw them at players who you think aren't pulling their weight (you point them out, we'll bring 'em down for you). Also, very kind of you to refer to your fellow supporters as c***** - I guess you've been reading 'How to win friends and influence people' again? As for your other points, we'd have wanted their player sent off if he'd tackled Gordon the way Gordon tackled him, so a red card seems fair; we're hardly 'utter s****' - haven't had a great start but it's bit early for this sort of criticism. Looking forward to your next inspirational postings.

Surely we can only do that if the say Jehovah?

Liviforever wrote:Seeing a lot being made about Burchill not showing passion, shouting at players etc, don't think it's his style of management really and does it really matter?

Do players even listen when the likes of Duffy is shouting all game, does it even make any difference, they were winning despite him moaning whenever they made a mistake.

Burchill hardly showed a reaction when we put 4 past Alloa in the cup final, the camera zooms in on him after each goal and he barely cracked a smile, were any of our fans that bothered he wasn't shouting at players in that game, I doubt it.

I think the fans are just looking for this shouty style when we're losing because that's what most managers do, doubt it would've made a difference to our result on Sat though, but folk would prob claim it did if he'd been doing it when we scored those 2 goals.

Player selection, tactics and timing of substitutions bother me far more that seeing Burchill standing not showing passion. As long as the players show passion/effort then I'm reasonably happy too.

You can show passion without shouting at people you know. I wasn't advocating a return to the Hughes bully-boy tactics but some of the guys were dead on their feet out there and for the most part Burchill stood with his hands in his pockets. If his hands are that cold I'll supply the gloves.

In other games he's been more animated signalling when Gallagher was free on the wing and DJ was going to kick the ball but for the Morton game there appeared to be phases when he'd virtually given up. That impression rubs off on people; the players need leadership and they're not really getting it from Cole; last season I used to criticise Talbot over his in-your-face style but at least the boys knew he was there, as such maybe a quiet manager didn't matter so much, this season we need some direction.

I don't really Livi manager watch as I'm behind the away dug out but it only really adds entertainment/amusement to the home fans seeing away managers being in despair at some of the mistakes their players make and shouting at them to give instructions, and the odd expletive being used.

I agree about the captaincy situation right enough but I think Ben Gordon gives help to younger players anyway so in that respect having an armband makes no difference to him as he's a natural leader on the pitch. He was Alloa's captain though so I'd have thought he'd be a more likely candidate than Cole.

I mean 4-0 down at home to MORTON, a performance whereby the players had given up, tactics from the manager were tactically inept. Someone please tell me, how are you able to applaud that?! It was a shocker from Livingston, we've been howling all season, this isn't good enough. Applauding means you're content. Booing shows you're not happy and that things have to change. Why are we settling for 5 minutes of a performance when Morton have fallen asleep anyway. If that's the attitude then relegate us now. 5 minutes when the game is dead doesn't make up for 85 minutes of rubbish. Gotta say we didn't look great before the red card either, it was very much a standard Livi performance whereby there was no pace and the football was very sloppy whilst creating nothing. We gave up after that. Livingston fans need to open their eyes, paid a lot of money for a season ticket and it's absolutey horrendous every week. Let the club know it - we're not here to simply be alive, we're here to win games and show a bit of fight but we don't do it because we're hopeless and the players and management think it'll all come together eventually, or maybe they don't care and are just happy to be paid.

Nobody applauded them when we were 4-0 down, it was for the effort in getting it to 4-2 and almost 4-3 that was getting clapped by the fans. Everything else before that kinda just piled on from the sending off and then Gallagher and DJ with their keystone cops routine for the first goal. Do you really think we'd have been pumped 4 goals 11 v 11?

You're just having a meltdown to being pumped by Morton but it was a one off game due to how things went on that day. I've def seen progress since the 2 St Mirren games, there are signs of improvement in front of goal and Sheerin and White def look like having a good partnership. Once we get a settled team playing together for a few games running we'll be fine.

Steam Pudding wrote:

Lexi Collector wrote:APPLAUDING OFF THE PARK?! Some of our c**** applauded that joke of a team off the park at full-time. Gordon's was never a red card. Burchill doesn't have a clue, fuck raging after that today. No excuses, we're utter shite and have been for far too long. We need to drive it home and start booing these useless bastards off the park, the attitude is rotten.

The nerve of supporters, supporting and encouraging their team - what are they like? Interesting view Lexi, but doesn't go far enough - I think we should be allowed to bring rocks into the stadium and throw them at players who you think aren't pulling their weight (you point them out, we'll bring 'em down for you). Also, very kind of you to refer to your fellow supporters as c***** - I guess you've been reading 'How to win friends and influence people' again? As for your other points, we'd have wanted their player sent off if he'd tackled Gordon the way Gordon tackled him, so a red card seems fair; we're hardly 'utter s****' - haven't had a great start but it's bit early for this sort of criticism. Looking forward to your next inspirational postings.

Of course we would, we are biased in favour of our team...doesn't make the decision right or fair though.

Durnford wrote:

Steam Pudding wrote:The nerve of supporters, supporting and encouraging their team - what are they like? Interesting view Lexi, but doesn't go far enough - I think we should be allowed to bring rocks into the stadium and throw them at players who you think aren't pulling their weight (you point them out, we'll bring 'em down for you). Also, very kind of you to refer to your fellow supporters as c***** - I guess you've been reading 'How to win friends and influence people' again? As for your other points, we'd have wanted their player sent off if he'd tackled Gordon the way Gordon tackled him, so a red card seems fair; we're hardly 'utter s****' - haven't had a great start but it's bit early for this sort of criticism. Looking forward to your next inspirational postings.

Surely we can only do that if the say Jehovah?

Only if they (& we) are Jewish....and we have to be men, Orco would be excluded even if she is Jewish. And you can put that fake beard away Orco, you're not fooling anyone!

Lexi Collector wrote:I mean 4-0 down at home to MORTON, a performance whereby the players had given up, tactics from the manager were tactically inept. Someone please tell me, how are you able to applaud that?! It was a shocker from Livingston, we've been howling all season, this isn't good enough. Applauding means you're content. Booing shows you're not happy and that things have to change. Why are we settling for 5 minutes of a performance when Morton have fallen asleep anyway. If that's the attitude then relegate us now. 5 minutes when the game is dead doesn't make up for 85 minutes of rubbish. Gotta say we didn't look great before the red card either, it was very much a standard Livi performance whereby there was no pace and the football was very sloppy whilst creating nothing. We gave up after that. Livingston fans need to open their eyes, paid a lot of money for a season ticket and it's absolutey horrendous every week. Let the club know it - we're not here to simply be alive, we're here to win games and show a bit of fight but we don't do it because we're hopeless and the players and management think it'll all come together eventually, or maybe they don't care and are just happy to be paid.

Now you're just being annoying Lexi; they didn't only turn up for the last 5 minutes; the first half hour was fairly entertaining and quite open. There were some decent passages of play. Away & lie down in a dark room & think about marketing strategies for a while!

Bertie Bassett wrote:

Durnford wrote:

Steam Pudding wrote:The nerve of supporters, supporting and encouraging their team - what are they like? Interesting view Lexi, but doesn't go far enough - I think we should be allowed to bring rocks into the stadium and throw them at players who you think aren't pulling their weight (you point them out, we'll bring 'em down for you). Also, very kind of you to refer to your fellow supporters as c***** - I guess you've been reading 'How to win friends and influence people' again? As for your other points, we'd have wanted their player sent off if he'd tackled Gordon the way Gordon tackled him, so a red card seems fair; we're hardly 'utter s****' - haven't had a great start but it's bit early for this sort of criticism. Looking forward to your next inspirational postings.

Surely we can only do that if the say Jehovah?

Only if they (& we) are Jewish....and we have to be men, Orco would be excluded even if she is Jewish. And you can put that fake beard away Orco, you're not fooling anyone!

Sussed.

How the ref saw that as anything other than a trip I don't know, he's looking from the same angle as the camera too and was a def yellow card. Really should have appealed that.

Can barely bring myself to watch our defending for all Morton's goals, we're caught posting missing for 3 of them and Gallagher's keystone cop pass back should win him a prize on some funniest goals conceded show. DJ should've also saved their 2nd, nightmare in goals. Great strike for Sheerin's goal though, and White's knock down for the assist.

Liviforever wrote:How the ref saw that as anything other than a trip I don't know, he's looking from the same angle as the camera too and was a def yellow card. Really should have appealed that.

Can barely bring myself to watch our defending for all Morton's goals, we're caught posting missing for 3 of them and Gallagher's keystone cop pass back should win him a prize on some funniest goals conceded show. DJ should've also saved their 2nd, nightmare in goals. Great strike for Sheerin's goal though, and White's knock down for the assist.

How was that anything other than a yellow? I'm not even sure it was a trip actually and certainly not one that would justify the leap into the air and rolling over on the ground.

Gallagher was undoubtedly responsible for the first goal, what on earth did he think he was doing, but DJ could certainly have done a lot better with the second.

Some of that defending is quite painful to watch; why on earth was a knackered Hippolyte expected to operate as a left back? Madness!

Although there was a good bit of play between DJ giving them the ball from a kick out along the ground and them scoring their 3rd goal, he was still responsible for us ultimately conceding it as he does that nearly every game, and puts us under unnecessary pressure because of it.

Unless Gould is just making up the numbers and a token position on the bench then he should be given a chance to see how he gets on. Surely can't be any worse with his kick outs and mistakes.

Liviforever wrote:Although there was a good bit of play between DJ giving them the ball from a kick out along the ground and them scoring their 3rd goal, he was still responsible for us ultimately conceding it as he does that nearly every game, and puts us under unnecessary pressure because of it.

Unless Gould is just making up the numbers and a token position on the bench then he should be given a chance to see how he gets on. Surely can't be any worse with his kick outs and mistakes.

Tend to agree; Gould looked pretty handy against Stenny; I know its pretty low calibre opposition but even so.

Some of DJ's kicking has been just plain awful; in fact its now more of a rarity that he comes out with a good one. Likewise he often holds on to the ball too long instead of quickly putting it out to the wings and letting our guys break BEFORE the opposition has had a chance to fully form the defence.

Finally brought myself to watch the highlights, if only to see the two goals which we scored - I was halfway home by the time Shagz and Sheerin netted. I thought it was a pretty even game up until the sending off, which was probably the most ridiculous sending off I've ever seen. I was right in front of it, it was a trip by Gordon, he knew what he was doing but it wasn't violent conduct and it wasn't a goal scoring opportunity. If he'd slid in and wiped the Morton boy out, fair enough, but it was a fucking trip. The same thing happened to us last weekend against St Mirren when Glen was breaking forward down the right and their boy took him down, otherwise he'd have been clean through down the wing. Only a yellow then, and quite rightly so. Utterly ridiculous the referee has interpreted Gordon's tackle as violent, the fact there's no mechanism for refs to have key decisions questioned in public is pretty amatuerish.

That said, the arse totally fell out of any hopes we had after the red, first goal we conceded was comical beyond belief. Having watched the highlights back it's not 100% DJ's fault as I thought it was at the time, think both he and Gallagher have to shoulder some of the blame for it but DJ should be coming off his line for that earlier, sorry. He did similar not long after, firmly rooted to his line until the last moment, his confidence is clearly shaken. His distribution as well is all over the place, I'm not sure if the lack of genuine pace on the counter is preventing us from having a real outball on his kicks but regardless, the majority of the time it's out of play or into the opposition keeper's hands. Not good enough I'm afraid, and his obvious strengths aside, a spell on the bench couldn't be any worse for the team at the moment. Only saw Gould in the second half at Stenny and he looked solid, if unspectacular. Time for him to get his chance, guy is working his arse off apparently so can't be any worse.

Second, third and fourth goals: fuck me. Gallagher gets absolutely done by their for the second, poor save from DJ, should've done better. The third one probably wouldn't have riled me as much if it wasn't Bobby Barr, but it's piss poor defending from out wide, both from Millen and Mullen. Fourth one - we make them look like Barcelona and Jim Duffy like Pep fucking Guardiola. To be honest, Morton are a fairly shite team as well, and we should be beating them with the squad we have - that's not up for discussion. What's going wrong then? Attitude? Tactics? Luck? Possibly all three, and certainly when it comes to the red card the latter is against us, but Burchill still has to nail what is his best team. I certainly thought the full backs let us down again on Saturday, Millen at fault in the build-up to the red card, and Longridge not looking too convincing and not completing another full game. And Danny Mullen, Jesus wept. I'm beginning to really go off the guy tbh. I hate singling out individual performances but he is just not at the races. Not a team player either, and his Burchill needs to tell him to stop this staying down pish. He has the pain threshold of a two-year old it seems.

Tl;dr - awful result to a team we should be beating, too many players not at the races, manager needs to pull a rabbit out the hat or else we're going to Alloa in two weeks time still looking for our first win.