And so it begins... Livi v St Mirren Betfred Cup

So the start of the real stuff is almost upon us, although it still seems like pre-season if you ask me.

i hate preseason games so haven't gone to any, in the balance at the moment whether I go on Saturday but I probably will.

Don't know if there are plans for a prediction league this season but just in case:

Liv 0 StM 1

FG 37 mins

Livi 2 - SMeth 1

FG 16

Scorer: Josh Mullin (no. 11) & Josh Mullin (no 21)

Going by the last two games I can see this being a draw but i'll go with type and predict a Livi win.

Livi 2-1 St Mirren. fg 27 mins.

1-1, FG 28 mins. St Mirren to win on penalties.

LiviCub wrote:1-1, FG 28 mins. St Mirren to win on penalties.

It's not a knock out stage so no penalties.

Each game drawn in the group stage will go to a penalty shootout, with the winner getting a bonus point. Quite like the idea tbh.

1-2, FG 27 mins.

Afro wrote:Each game drawn in the group stage will go to a penalty shootout, with the winner getting a bonus point. Quite like the idea tbh.

1-2, FG 27 mins.

With DJ in goal for the penalties

Yeah D, that's what I was thinking too, DJ the penalty save king would win us that, we should def just play for draws in this cup group stage thingy. If it's the Sevco goalie starting we should sub him for DJ just before the pens start.

2-1 St Mirren. FG 29 mins.

Afro wrote:Each game drawn in the group stage will go to a penalty shootout, with the winner getting a bonus point. Quite like the idea tbh.

1-2, FG 27 mins.

I stand corrected. Seems daft though if it's a group.

Utd are the first team to get an extra point in this penalty shoot out for a draw rule, 1-1 after 90 mins, Arbroath and Utd get a point each then Utd get another point for winning with pens.

Tough one for us today,Alex Rea who was sitting in the stand for the St Johnston game would have seen a marked improvement from us.Our new players will probably have to step up a gear ifwe are to take anything from this game,not undoable but i reckon the best we can hope for is to hold them and take it to penalties.If so hopefully DJ can have that little bit of inspiration we know he has in his locker.Do it Livi,Cmon!!!

orco wrote:

Afro wrote:Each game drawn in the group stage will go to a penalty shootout, with the winner getting a bonus point. Quite like the idea tbh.

1-2, FG 27 mins.

I stand corrected. Seems daft though if it's a group.

I like it; although I'd prefer extra time first. Adds a bit of spice to the proceedings. The extra point you get in a shoot out win might just be the point the gets you through. Also increases the chance of a "shock".

I would have also preferred everyone playing each other twice. Europa Cup tried the 5 teams/4 games group stages a few years ago & quickly reverted to the norm.

I think the new format is pretty good with the penalty kick addition and it sounds like last night was quite exciting in the games played. Hopefully we can put in a good performance here and get to penalties as you'd fancy us in any shootout with Jamieson.

Sadly though, 0-2 FG 13 mins.

I'm hoping for a right royal GIRUY to Ben Gordon.

I hope you are all sitting down because I think I might be about to surprise you; that was my first match since the Stranraer game so I only had comments on here for the pre-season games to go by.

I was pleasantly surprised; for large parts of the game we were dominant & threatening; we scored 2 very good goals & ultimately lost to 2 wonder strikes (what is it with St Mirren & wonder strikes?) & one of the flukiest goals you are ever likely to see. Heard Alex Rae complimenting our performance on the radio, which can be easy to do when you have won but he also admitted they seem to have the "wonder goal" thing working for them, mentioning Shanklands efforts last season.

I was mildly surprised to see Kelly start in goal; this tells me that either Hoppy really does not rate DJ or he is treating these matches as educational in the sense that he will decide which keeper will be his first choice. I guess we'll have more of a clue on that as these group games continue. Could Kelly have done better for the Saints equaliser? Possibly, but it was the flukiest goal I've seen since Burchill's cross hit Roy in the face & deflected in.

Halkett & Longridge both did well as the RB & LB & Morgan was a difficult & tricky opponent who was probably Saints best player; Crighton & Lithgow coped reasonably with what they were up against & seem to communicate with each other & the back line in particular. Sutton is a handful but only really got the better of them when he knocked it down for Clarkson to volley in that stunning opening goal. Someone said they should have closed Clarkson down for the winner but to be fair they were probably hoping he'd try to score thinking it was more likely to end in the stand, unfortunately Clarkson connected with it beautifully & it flew in.

Miller put in a decent shift trying to win the ball for Mullin & Cadden. Sinclair was fairly quiet, had one or two good touches but largely anonymous. Mullin & Cadden were very good, the latter took his goal superbly & crossed a peach in for the second. Good effort with his free kick too. Mullin was giving the Saints defence bother all game.

Buchanan & Mullen just don't seem to be a partnership to me; admittedly Buchanan was lying deeper but he needs to get forward & support Mullen to get on to any second balls. He got the assist on Cadden's goal but Cadden had to check his run when he really should have been able to run on to the pass. Mullen still gets knocked off the ball too easily but he gave the Saints defence a work out so even I can't complain too much.

Subs; Pittman came on for Sinclair & did more during his time on the field. Right sub at the time.
Carrick on for Buchanan & what a way to enter the fray; 10 seconds after coming on, first touch & he scores. He then proved to be a handful. I'd be starting him.
Orr on for Mullen... didn't really get much time but looked slow & unsure of himself. Had one chance to shine when he had the opportunity to cross but it was a tame effort.

So overall a much better performance than I was expecting & as long as we don't succumb to the usual dropping of standards against lesser opposition we should do okay in this league. For the first time in his tenure as manager Hoppy impressed me with his initial setting up of the team & with 2 of his 3 substitutions & as any Meat Loaf fan will tell you, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

And finally... its good to see that our referees are still hopelessly inept. He let the Saints guys do pretty much anything they wanted to Mullen - admittedly he went down easily at times but not always & he was fouled more often than the number of free kicks he won. Incidentally, I thought he was fouled immediately before the build up to the opening goal. I was under the impression that offside free kicks were now to be taken at the place where the player was offside....so how did Saints end up with a free kick for offside in the centre of the pitch half way between the half way line & 18 yard box when the offside occurred on the wing roughly in the final third of the pitch in Saints half?

I'll make my post shorter, good going forward and Cadden is our star player, but defensively we are making the exact same mistakes as last season, allowing players acres of space to get their shots off and I believe St Mirren scored 2 goals in a game against us last season exactly the same as these today from volleys outside our box. Get in close to players and put pressure on them so they don't get time to line up shots like this, Arrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhh, does my head in when we concede like this. Not much we could do about their 2nd goal, complete fluke.

Fecking ridiculous needing to score 3 goals just to get a draw, we'll score goals but really need to bloody defend better.

Quite Simply we should have won. Without my livi specs on I do believe we were the better team; had the better chances; controlled the ball better; were more innovative and frankly were a lot more up for it.

How Naismith managed to stay on the pitch after his tackle on Mullen; two hands round the neck and thrown to the ground. Did he even get a card for that - did he f....

As for our guys I though Miller was really good for about 60 minutes and seemed to tire quite a bit towards the end. Cadden and Mullin were really excellent (I am now worried that we might have only signed Cadden up for 12 months as it wont be long before scouts start sniffing around).

Mullin put in a good shift but got no protection from the referee.

Buchanan had a really strong first half but often seemed to be too deep and tired as the game went on - pretty good performance though.

Creighton and Lithgow generally performed well and are developing a good understanding; Creighton in particular rarely shut up in the second half; if I didn't know Miller was team captain I'd have thought it was him.

Thought Halkett played very well but I still don't see him as a right back. Linked up particularly well with Mullin though.

Sinclair started well but seemed to drift in and out; when he was good he was very good but at other times virtually anonymous. He seemed to be playing as a defensive midfielder and I'm not sure that's his natural position. Thought he looked a lot better in the Saints game so we'll see.

Pitman, when he came on, seemed to be playing a more central midfield role which suited him a lot more.

For Carrick I was worried he was going to be another Gary Glen; looked really up for it and not afraid to get stuck in. Actually in light of all the bullying that Mullen was subjected to I cant help but think he should probably have come on earlier.

Orr was frankly the one disappointment; didn't look particularly fired up or bothered; rarely broke out of a trot - I'm probably being a bit unfair based on 22 minutes but he looked mediocre at best. As I say I'm probably being a bit unfair but what justification was there for him having a place ahead of Kieran Sommerville? I appreciate he only signed up on Thursday last and didn't have any time to settle in but would have thought that was even more justification not to throw him straight into the fray. Maybe he'll be more comfortable on Tuesday night?

As for Kelly some good and some bad. on the good side he communicated well with the defence and pulled of one good stop. I do feel he could have done better with the buddies third goal; he must have had good sight of it from a long distance (although to a degree he may have been caught with the sun in his eyes). It was an okay performance although I'm not sure it would definitely warrant him getting ahead of DJ.

In general though we may not be the finished article but are well on the way. The team is starting to shape up well and I suspect Hopkins is using the Betfred as a chance to really hone the team rather that to seriously compete.

If that's the case then I expect us to totally obliterate Stranraer on 6th August - I know it doesn't always work out like that but it would be really satisfying on so many levels.

We'll be able to gauge our performance better for League One when we play Edin City, in that it'll be the first time we're playing a team that isn't a league or 2 above us and we should be looking to gub them. Or at least win comfortably by a goal or two, putting in a dominant performance and seeing the game out comfortably.
That'll be closer to the level of the teams we'll be playing in the league.

Hopkin has a balanced squad with decent cover for positions, esp in midfield. If Carrick can give competition for his place up front I think we'll do well this season, that was the one place I was worried about. Well that and defence but we look not too bad there if we get the not picking players up around our box and getting closer to them when they're lining up a shot/volley sorted out.

Not sure about having Buchanan playing so deep though, as imo he'd be more of a goal threat than Mullen, seemed Cadden was up partnering Mullen more than Buchanan was.

Agree that Buchanan was too deep. I don't mind two wee guys up front, I remember Robertson and Colquhoun linking superbly in the 80's for Hearts. But they have to be alongside each other rather than a wee almost-target-man and a deeper lying partner. Preferably you keep it on the deck and play to feet but mix it up as Mullen is good in the air for a wee guy. But you then need his partner making runs for him to find and Buchanan was too deep and too static. Admittedly he set Cadden free for the equaliser but Cadden had to check slightly as the pass was under hit.

I've been critical of Hoppy but Saturday was promising and hopefully we build on it.

Really good display by the Lions on Saturday.Would agree with most posts though as has already been mentioned we are still finding our feet with so many additions to the squad thus far.Still reckon we need some sort of hieght up front as we seem to be bouncing off defenders when going forward.The trip along to Meadowbank on Wednesday should give us a gauge as to how well our recent form will stand up against so called weaker sides.Personnally i would urge caution as imo they have nothing to lose and will probabably be right up for this on their own patch.Play the way we have been recently and i feel we should be ok.Do it Livi!!!

Had a look for highlights of this game but couldn't find any, but did a youtube search and it has the 3 st Mirren goals. They might've included ours too the selfish pricks.



Was maybe harsh on our keeper for the third, he was well beaten for all 3 of them, still can't get over their 2nd, fluky bassas.

You can see the defender saying to the keeper after the second one..."How the *%@# did he get that in from there? Mr Scott was wrong, you CAN change the laws of physics."



Well, maybe not the second bit, but definitely the first bit.