PS Cup Group game v Spartans

Just realised with the gd in our benefit by 2 but the goals scored in their benefit, this game is a winner takes all match because even a 1 goal win for Spartans will see them top the group. That could make for a highly entertaining match.

In reality we should be winning this but we have seen enough surprise results already across the groups that we really have to make sure we are up for it. Pretty sure Spartans will be viewing it as a major opportunity.

Incidentally, 9 points may not be enough for best runner up this season. I think it is possible for 1 or 2 groups to end with 3 teams on 9. For example if Falkirk and Ayr both win their last matches they could knock Dundee United to 3rd, United currently have 9 points and lead the group. Falkirk will have the best gd with a win and they probably win the group but Ayr are only 2 gd behind so they could win by 3 more than Falkirk do and they would win it. United will be hoping that both drop at least a point & could go out in 3rd place with 9 points. It may be necessary to have a strong gd with 9 points to get thru.

Also, I think we have 5 teams in Europe, which means only 11 teams can qualify from the groups, 8 winners and 3 best runners up. So we need to secure at least a point to ensure we win the group.

Putting on my usual pessimistic hat…the following scenario would see us knocked out…

If we lose Spartans win the group and we’d be second on 9 points and at best +4 gd
If Falkirk win and Ayr don’t, Falkirk win their group with Dundee United 2nd on 9 and +5 gd
If Aberdeen don’t lose & Airdrie win the will be on 9 points with at least +9 gd
If Hibs don’t lose and Queen’s Park win one them will be second on 9 with at least +6 gd

That scenario would knock us out on 9 points and there are other permutations that would also knock us out if we lose.

So the bottom line is we have to take care of business, it’s not a foregone conclusion but we should be more than capable of getting the job done.

Aye a couple of times we looked like we'd be out in the group stages but every result went our way on the last day and we went through as a best runner up, would be sods law if it all went against us this time, when we go into the last game in pole position.

On a more positive note, there are 3 other teams on 9pts with a game to play, with 3 places getting seeded along with the 5 teams coming in at the knock out stages. Aberdeen and Dundee have a + GD of 8 and 10, us and County are on 5 and 4 respectively, so if we all win our games on Sat it's between us and County for that final place being seeded in the next round.

Were at home.Ive no fears whatsoever.Hopefully put these upstarts in their place.Yeh no doubt they'll have a go but surely our quality will open them up and see us into the next round.Darent think of the alternative.And montentum going into to next week against the Pars.Lets just get the job done in hand and worry about that later..

They're a League Two side so yeah, we should be beating them, or at worse not losing to them, home or away. We drew 0-0 in a pre season game, but we didn't play anything near our strongest XI, and that was five games back, so on that score we'll have improved a great deal from then, and would expect us to be winning this comfortably. So 1-0 Livi with Spartans hitting the post in the last few seconds.

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I’d take it even if it went in off the post as that would get us through, not too bothered by seeding, if we were to be seeded we’d probably get the best of the unseeded teams… which by your comments LF is likely to be County if we can match or better their score.

Hope we go all out for a win. We made heavy weather of Cove on Tuesday. Great early goal then we started the old sideways and pass it back for long periods meaning we were not safe until we scored again in the last five minutes of the game.

Clearly the lack of posting since the end of the game sums up the disgust felt by one and all….how to sum it up…

Inept, toothless, pathetic. It was a masterclass in how to have total domination in having possession of the ball and do hee-haw with it. It was as comfortable an afternoon you could ever hope to have and we still contrived to lose and get knocked out.

My scenario for getting knocked out panned out exactly as I said, with accuracy like that I should be doing the lottery. Some young lads asked me before kick off what I thought the score would be and I said “1-0 to Spartans.”

First half we didn’t trouble them despite having almost all the possession. Second half we at least had them under pressure as they blocked shots, we hit the woodwork twice and their keeper made a couple of decent saves. But that was it. What is perhaps most disappointing is that Spartans didn’t really play particularly well. Yes they set up in an ultra defensive “low block” but we did nothing to break that down.
Move the ball quickly, pass & move quickly, make runs decoy or otherwise…not us, static players, slow possession play. They defended us easily for most of the game and they had 3 free attempts at scoring before it finally trundled in. Our subs did no better when they came on except for that short spell of pressure I mentioned earlier. Why was Muirhead taken off when he’s our main goal threat? Why was Yengi not subbed? Why did we have no creative ball player in midfield?

Any other club in Scotland would be showing the manager the door and saying “Thanks for your service, all the best for the future, so long, farewell, auf wiedersehen.” But we all know that won’t happen.

Really disappointed with that outcome today. Sometimes I hate fitba.
It was one of those days when we just couldn't get that goal. We came so-oh close numerous times. And then Spartans take a run up the park in the last five minutes and score. I don't think it would have mattered what formation was played the gods were not smiling on us. It has happened to the bigger team countless times before in cup games and unfortunately was just our turn today.
Onward and upwards for Dunfermline next week.

Terrible game - at times we looked like the lower league team.
DM - post match "do we do stick 2 up front and go for it" (or similiar phrasing ) At least TRY
He set up to play out the draw - OK when you're SAFE not when the other team can still qualify.

Sorry for the late post.Had to compose myself before writing this.I was so angry leaving the stadium yesterday. Cant add much to what has already been said. One thing I noticed yesterday. For the majority of the game Spartans had 11 men behind the ball when were going forward making it tough to break them down.We should have been good enough to do that,but we didn't.Will need to see the goal back to see if it was preventable.All in all such a frustrating day,and thats putting it mildly. .

Apparently someone was offside in the build up, can’t say I noticed that at all. I just remember thinking as the ball ricocheted in our goalmouth that it was going to end up in the net because our players were standing around watching it happen.

Troy, we all KNEW Spartans would have everyone defending ahead of the game, it wasn’t something to notice on the day, it should have been the focus of our preparations, how to break down a “low block” aka “parked bus”. According to DM’s post match interview the players didn’t execute the game plan, if that is the case he has lost the dressing room. When a defence is not budging you have to make them move by passing and moving quickly, we didn’t we tapped it to each other from side to side, presumably trying to draw them out but all they did was stand their ground. Credit to them it was a very disciplined performance by Spartans and then they tried to hit on the counter. They get a free kick and we fail to show any defensive discipline.

If we keep playing like this we will be fighting relegation again.

Yep we played them twice and failed to score in 180 mins, we had the experience from our pre season game to know how they'd play.

Our CB's wont have an easier time bringing it out of defence all season, Spartans didn't press us once all game, they immediately dropped back into their low block. We should've just played keep ball in our own half for the last 20 mins, forcing them to come up and press us, the onus was on them to score for a win, or they'd be out and we'd win the group, getting some of their players to come up the pitch would've opened up space to get at them. If they didn't still then feck it, just see out the game keeping possession.

Anyway it's done now, i doubt we'll have to play against another team set up so defensively in the league, and up till that game we were 3 wins without conceding a goal, so chins up. We're still needing to sharpen up in front of goal, our lack of goals killed us as much as losing yesterday, Spartans went through on goals for, and Utd beat us as a best of the rest qualifier by 1 goal in GD. Hopefully things will start clicking soon, and the new players will get better as the season goes on too.

It could be worse, we could be Dunfermline fans, they lost their 3rd cup game yesterday, ironically the only team they managed to beat was Spartans, 3-0.

We really need another win against the Pars to lift spirits back up, and get ourselves into the league campaign on a positive result.

So just Falkirk, Airdrie and QP got through to the knock outs from the Championship teams, and all on 9pts, but a better GD than us.

Spartans hoping for a big money draw got Ross County at home, wishing them the best but i think County will beat them, or can they do it again.....

I said the winner of our group would get Ross (speculated it would be us in one of my more optimistic moments in reply to one your posts LF)

Can Spartans do it again? No, County will actually attack them with some purpose rather than faffing about with nothing passes.

As I said,these players need to look in the mirror and ask,did i do enough,obviously not.Yes we got the proverbial kick in the nuts,but with the way we played on Saturday against a team 2 leagues below us albeit they had decent form going into this gives me the fear going into the new campaign.Also people going on about relegation odds worries me as well.Christ sake surely not.As I said a huge kick up the arse is needed,and would suggest some shooting practice should be top of the agenda as opposed to trying to walk the ball into the net.He who dares wins comes to mind.Get it sorted Livi..

Talking about relegation is just knee jerk reactions of an over dramatic hangover from last season, some folk going into operatic levels of drama after a defeat.

As i've said, playing against teams that set up so defensively is hard to break down, we've done it against Celtic and got results, and they're a far better team than us, and the financial and quality gulf between us and Celtic is far bigger than the one between us and Spartans.

We did actually break them down and get behind them, McAlear and Yengi had 2 clear shots at goal, both blasted over the bar, Muirhead had a direct free kick, again blasted over the bar, we hit the woodwork twice, and had one cleared off the line, and their keeper made a few good saves.

However match sharpness still looks rusty and these group games are used to get teams up to speed for the league starting, we're clearly a work in progress still. Up till the Spartans game though we were 3 for 3 with no goals against, and still only conceded 1 goal in 4 games. Defensively we're looking a lot better than last season, but our attack needs to get sharper, ultimately we went out by not scoring 1 more goal.

Looking at how the other Championship teams fared, 3 qualified, all on 9pts, but their GD was far better. Ayr had the same pts and GD as us, and Partick & Raith went out on less pts than us, do you think their fans are talking about relegation. Pars fans might be right enough, they lost 3 of their 4 group games. Funnily enough the one they won was a 3-0 win over Spartans, obv weren't set up so defensively against the Pars in that game.

Did any of those teams lose to a team from the 4th tier? Jock Stein used to say something about it being difficult to score against 11 dustbins so you have to move the ball around them. We didn’t do that often enough, we had those efforts that went over the bar and a 10 minute spell where we looked like a goal was coming. When it didn’t come we went back to nothing passes and for all the improved defending we were statues when they scored. The comment that we didn’t qualify because we didn’t score 1 more goal… yes but it can also be said that we got knocked out because we conceded 1 goal.

I said last season after we somehow won our group that we’d have a long hard season and would go down if we didn’t improve and the same is true after Saturday. Do I think we’ll go down again? No but the warning signs are there and the management and players need to address that.

It also was insulting to hear DM babbling on about whether the players deserved to go out… bottom line is they didn’t do enough to get through. Those 3 wins came with warning signs too, far too passive in the first half against Forfar and second best for about 20 minutes after we took the lead, far too passive after getting the lead against Dunfermline, I wasn’t at Cove but heard suggestions that we were far too passive after getting the early breakthrough.

Those other champ teams all scored plenty in their groups, doesn’t sound like they were playing passively. If we are passive in the league we will get punished by the opposition.

Partick lost to Clyde, Morton lost to East Fife, both in League Two, can't be bothered checking every team.

Lots of Championship teams conceded far more than one goal, lost a game, and some  still qualified, because they scored lots of goals. Our lack of goals in the games we won did us as much as losing to Spartans. Still was a fine line between qualifying and going out, 1 goal deciding our fate a few times.

In the other games we played we also had chances to score more goals though, and really should've, that wasn't down to passive play, just not sharp enough in the final third.


Interesting looking at how the Championship team did in their goals stats.

QP For 16 - A 5
Airdrie F 15 - A 5
Falkirk F 11- A 2

3 of the most free scoring teams from the group games. QP & Airdrie also conceding a few but their goals for far exceed it, and Falkirk were quite tight at the back too.

Partick F 11 - A 5
Ayr F 9 - A 5

are high scorers but also concede a few.

 

Raith F 7 - A 4

Middling, scoring goals but conceding quite a lot for what they're scoring.

Livi F 5 - A 1

Not conceded much but need to score more.

Accies F 5 - A 3

Low scoring and conceding a few too.

Dunfermline F 4 - A 5
Morton F 3 - A 6

The poorest performers, low scorers and high goals against to put them in a negative GD.


Falkirk come out of the group stages in fine form, competing against a newly promoted Premiership team, and a fellow Championship team in Utd and Ayr, and got 9pts, with a +9 GD. They look like they've kept the momentum from winning League One going into the new season.

Course all that means is pre season and cup group games have gone better for some teams than others, taking them into the League starting. The league is over 36 games and some teams will get stronger, while others drop away, injuries and fatigue kicking in, where squad depth will come into it, a lot will change as the season goes.

We're obv in it for the long haul and don't want to shoot our bolt or peak too early.

We got fiercely punished for letting in one goal in four games.

Auld Nick wrote:I said the winner of our group would get Ross (speculated it would be us in one of my more optimistic moments in reply to one your posts LF)

Can Spartans do it again? No, County will actually attack them with some purpose rather than faffing about with nothing passes.

Or can they? Henderson puts them 1 up in 46th minute. Much longer for them to hang on this time but can they do it? Mon the Spartans


Meanwhile Falkirk have gone 1 up against Hearts and Aberdeen still being held by QP

Aye just Airdrie letting the lower league down.

Hearts going oot as Falkirk go 2-0 up.