Livi v St Johnstone (Wed 7.45 ko)

Massive game for us, a win would put distance between us and also have a game in hand, a defeat and they'll pnly be one point behind us.


I think it will be a tough physical game but with our determination to win and great home form we should prevail, 2-0 Livi would be my guess.

St. Johnstone is a critical game but on the positive side

Livi - For 12 - Against 5
Saint - For 10 - Against 18

So 1-1 then.

FG 23 mins

Same team again for me. 1-1, FG 37 mins.

Tough game ahead tommorow night against St Johnston i reckon.But if we play our normal game i see no reason why we could maybe sneak this by the odd goal in three.Will be interesting to see who we start up front with as our guys should be fresh and champing at the bit.If we can keep this momentum going and keep pileing the points on the board who knows where it will take us.oh and before i forget a very warm welcome to our new Dutch signing Henk van Schaik.Sounds very promising from Fc Twente i believe..Any way wrap up well for the game tommorow night and Cmon Livi,Do it!!!

What are the rules of this football malarkey again? Its been so long since we've had a game... actually if we're talking the last competitive game then we're going back to 6th October.

presumably you don’t count beating Dundee 4-0 as a competitive match?

Well that was a damp squib of a game, that was made even worse by a poor refereeing team.

Thought we defended poorly to lose the goal but Saints just wasted time after scoring. Unfortunately we didn’t create nearly enough chances to trouble them. Pittman had a shot saved but that was about it really. I thought we lacked energy until the last 10 mins of each half.

Some decisions were woeful, a corner conceded when it was clearly them that put it out, goal kick awarded at the other end which looked more like our corner. They get a throw in that the ref wasn’t sure if it was a goal kick but they throw it from almost the 18 yard line, we get one in the same position but are forced to take it within 3 yards of the goal line. Free kicks against us that should have been for us, offside decisions that looked ridiculous.

All in all a disappointing game with a disappointing result. Hopefully we take it out on Accies on Saturday.

HAccies, St Midden & Scumdee all lost though so no real damage done & a wake up call for folk who had begun to think that top 6 is on the cards...long way to go before we can start thinking that.

Bertie Bassett wrote:presumably you don’t count beating Dundee 4-0 as a competitive match?

Thats why I included the word "competitive"

Bertie Bassett wrote:Well that was a damp squib of a game, that was made even worse by a poor refereeing team.

Thought we defended poorly to lose the goal but Saints just wasted time after scoring. Unfortunately we didn’t create nearly enough chances to trouble them. Pittman had a shot saved but that was about it really. I thought we lacked energy until the last 10 mins of each half.

Some decisions were woeful, a corner conceded when it was clearly them that put it out, goal kick awarded at the other end which looked more like our corner. They get a throw in that the ref wasn’t sure if it was a goal kick but they throw it from almost the 18 yard line, we get one in the same position  but are forced to take it within 3 yards of the goal line. Free kicks against us that should have been for us, offside decisions that looked ridiculous.

All in all a disappointing game with a disappointing result. Hopefully we take it out on Accies on Saturday.

HAccies, St Midden & Scumdee all lost though so no real damage done & a wake up call for folk who had begun to think that top 6 is on the cards...long way to go before we can start thinking that.

Disagree that there was no damage done; Aberdeen won and so did St.Johnstone which puts us deressingly closer to seventh place.

We really needed a striker or two today; Robinson was kept very quiet and Menga had a central defender climbing on top of him every time the ball came near. Hamilton played last night in the reserve game but even so I feel we could have benefited from his height in the lat twenty minutes. Lawless had quite a tough game today; couldn't match Kennedy's pace and really struggled.

Combination of looking well off the pace (prob due to the way we have been kicking our heels between games recently) and St Johnstone's game plan working perfectly. They came to stop us playing and shitfesting a 0-0 draw, they got a fortunate break of the ball that caught us cold in defence and got a goal out of it. Them's the breaks, it gave them something to hang onto all game and you just have to take it on the chin and move on.

I don't want to go on about bad decisions and brutal tackling etc, that just sounds bitter and making excuses, we expected a tough physical battle of a game and that's what we got.

The lack of having shots at their goal annoyed me more than what St Johnstone were doing, Keaghan had a good opening but changed his mind and played it sideways, we really needed to have a pop at their goal in that game, the balls over the heads up to Menga were being mopped up all game by their defence too, really frustrating. Best spell for me was when we made the substitutions and we made 2 or 3 decent openings to get at their goal, Sibbald had a good effort of a shot too, going narrowly wide. Too little too late.


The worst case scenario happened, with St Johnstone closing the gap on us to just 1 point we've still a game in hand right enough but it has gotten us in a precarious position of dropping down to the bottom 6.

Personally I blame the disappearance of the pellets for that defeat. Plus -
The early goal killed us. It made St Johnstone's tactics so much easier for them. We were chasing the game for 85 minutes while they just sat in and mopped everything up. Rather than say we played poorly which always irritates me when opposition folk say it, I give credit to Saints for a job well done.
I'd like a wee tweak in the team for Saturday which would facilitate Sibbald getting a start. I'd probably sacrifice Robinson for the sole reason that I didn't notice him last night till he was subbed.
The officiating was poor from all three. Menga leant on for every ball that came up, yards stolen for free kicks and throw ins, strange offsides and downright wrong decisions that we were invariably on the wrong side of. They probably wouldn't have changed the outcome but they are damned annoying especially when you get beat.  

Nah we def were poor Orco, even Holt said we were rubbish. Imo it was down to the stop start couple of months we've had, but not much you can do about it, you just have to get on with it and keep going. Complete opposite is coming in Dec where we're going to be playing twice a week all month, and have that Tues & Fri games week.

Durnford wrote:

Bertie Bassett wrote:Well that was a damp squib of a game, that was made even worse by a poor refereeing team.

Thought we defended poorly to lose the goal but Saints just wasted time after scoring. Unfortunately we didn’t create nearly enough chances to trouble them. Pittman had a shot saved but that was about it really. I thought we lacked energy until the last 10 mins of each half.

Some decisions were woeful, a corner conceded when it was clearly them that put it out, goal kick awarded at the other end which looked more like our corner. They get a throw in that the ref wasn’t sure if it was a goal kick but they throw it from almost the 18 yard line, we get one in the same position  but are forced to take it within 3 yards of the goal line. Free kicks against us that should have been for us, offside decisions that looked ridiculous.

All in all a disappointing game with a disappointing result. Hopefully we take it out on Accies on Saturday.

HAccies, St Midden & Scumdee all lost though so no real damage done & a wake up call for folk who had begun to think that top 6 is on the cards...long way to go before we can start thinking that.

Disagree that there was no damage done; Aberdeen won and so did St.Johnstone which puts us deressingly closer to seventh place.

We really needed a striker or two today; Robinson was kept very quiet and Menga had a central defender climbing on top of him every time the ball came near. Hamilton played last night in the reserve game but even so I feel we could have benefited from his height in the lat twenty minutes. Lawless had quite a tough game today; couldn't match Kennedy's pace and really struggled.

And would 7th place constitute failure? No it wouldn’t; it would be way beyond most people’s pre-season expectations. LF & yourself are the only folk currently viewing us as almost-certainties for a top 6 slot.

We played poorly yesterday & I expect we’ll see a few more poor performances between now & the end of the season. What was particularly disappointing yesterday was that had we played to the level we reached against Hibs & Rangers, we’d have skooshed it because Saints were not particularly good. They did stick to their game plan tho & it worked but if we had pressed them like we pressed the aforementioned gruesome twosome I think we would have beaten them. We had a spell where we pressed them we looked more like ourselves when we did but the final ball was always either over hit or under hit.

I find it hard to critisize the lads after what theyve given us so far this season but we were poor last night imo.Plenty of endevour and guile but no finished product up top not helped by the amount of wayward passes and the insistence of playing all those long balls up to the wee guys which the Saints defence dealt with for most of the night.Credit to St Johnston though,they obviously did their homework on us and succeded in stopping us playing our normal game much to the frustration of the home support.Hopefully as most people have said it was just a bad day at the office and normal service will resume at NDP or whatever its called now on Saturday.We move on!!1

Bertie Bassett wrote:

Durnford wrote:

Bertie Bassett wrote:Well that was a damp squib of a game, that was made even worse by a poor refereeing team.

Thought we defended poorly to lose the goal but Saints just wasted time after scoring. Unfortunately we didn’t create nearly enough chances to trouble them. Pittman had a shot saved but that was about it really. I thought we lacked energy until the last 10 mins of each half.

Some decisions were woeful, a corner conceded when it was clearly them that put it out, goal kick awarded at the other end which looked more like our corner. They get a throw in that the ref wasn’t sure if it was a goal kick but they throw it from almost the 18 yard line, we get one in the same position  but are forced to take it within 3 yards of the goal line. Free kicks against us that should have been for us, offside decisions that looked ridiculous.

All in all a disappointing game with a disappointing result. Hopefully we take it out on Accies on Saturday.

HAccies, St Midden & Scumdee all lost though so no real damage done & a wake up call for folk who had begun to think that top 6 is on the cards...long way to go before we can start thinking that.

Disagree that there was no damage done; Aberdeen won and so did St.Johnstone which puts us deressingly closer to seventh place.

We really needed a striker or two today; Robinson was kept very quiet and Menga had a central defender climbing on top of him every time the ball came near. Hamilton played last night in the reserve game but even so I feel we could have benefited from his height in the lat twenty minutes. Lawless had quite a tough game today; couldn't match Kennedy's pace and really struggled.

And would 7th place constitute failure? No it wouldn’t; it would be way beyond most people’s pre-season expectations. LF & yourself are the only folk currently viewing us as almost-certainties for a top 6 slot.

We played poorly yesterday & I expect we’ll see a few more poor performances between now & the end of the season. What was particularly disappointing yesterday was that had we played to the level we reached against Hibs & Rangers, we’d have skooshed it because Saints were not particularly good. They did stick to their game plan tho & it worked but if we had pressed them like we pressed the aforementioned gruesome twosome I think we would have beaten them. We had a spell where we pressed them we looked more like ourselves when we did but the final ball was always either over hit or under hit.

Okay perhaps you'd care to point out exactly where I said finishing in seventh was a failure or we were certainties for top sixth instead of making crap up?

You said there was no real damage done - I disagreed pointing out there was certainly damage done. Crowd size aside every position we drop costs us about £200k in prize money; that's about equivalent to 800 additional season ticket holders.In my opinion I feel we should be aiming for the best position we can get; not simply thinking tenth is good enough. Currently if we want to look to a top six place then its likely to be settled between any two of Killie; St Johnstone; Aberdeen and ourselves. The gruesome foursome have too comprehensive a squad to struggle when the bad weather and injuries hit.

Also whether we like it or not some offers are going to come in for some of our stars in the January window; we need to accumulate as many points as possible before we're faced with that situation. A possible twenty one points after the first eleven games cannot be viewed as anything other than a huge success by anyone other than the old firm.

With the Hamilton game in two days time that could be a very real possibility. They have three of their lead players suspended but can be notoriously hard to breakdown.

That being said eighteen point from eleven games is still top six form (or it has been in most other years without Dundee and St Mirren being so poor)

orco wrote:I'd probably sacrifice Robinson for the sole reason that I didn't notice him last night till he was subbed.(

Its difficult because he's a player who has probably been responsible for assisting with more of our goals in open play than anyone else and he does have a good shot on him but, yes, last night he was pretty invisible but them again the Saints gave him no space at all. Same goes for Menga; he's far better on the wing than in the centre where he has a big centre half breathing down his neck.

Durnford wrote:

Bertie Bassett wrote:

Durnford wrote:

Bertie Bassett wrote:Well that was a damp squib of a game, that was made even worse by a poor refereeing team.

Thought we defended poorly to lose the goal but Saints just wasted time after scoring. Unfortunately we didn’t create nearly enough chances to trouble them. Pittman had a shot saved but that was about it really. I thought we lacked energy until the last 10 mins of each half.

Some decisions were woeful, a corner conceded when it was clearly them that put it out, goal kick awarded at the other end which looked more like our corner. They get a throw in that the ref wasn’t sure if it was a goal kick but they throw it from almost the 18 yard line, we get one in the same position  but are forced to take it within 3 yards of the goal line. Free kicks against us that should have been for us, offside decisions that looked ridiculous.

All in all a disappointing game with a disappointing result. Hopefully we take it out on Accies on Saturday.

HAccies, St Midden & Scumdee all lost though so no real damage done & a wake up call for folk who had begun to think that top 6 is on the cards...long way to go before we can start thinking that.

Disagree that there was no damage done; Aberdeen won and so did St.Johnstone which puts us deressingly closer to seventh place.

We really needed a striker or two today; Robinson was kept very quiet and Menga had a central defender climbing on top of him every time the ball came near. Hamilton played last night in the reserve game but even so I feel we could have benefited from his height in the lat twenty minutes. Lawless had quite a tough game today; couldn't match Kennedy's pace and really struggled.

And would 7th place constitute failure? No it wouldn’t; it would be way beyond most people’s pre-season expectations. LF & yourself are the only folk currently viewing us as almost-certainties for a top 6 slot.

We played poorly yesterday & I expect we’ll see a few more poor performances between now & the end of the season. What was particularly disappointing yesterday was that had we played to the level we reached against Hibs & Rangers, we’d have skooshed it because Saints were not particularly good. They did stick to their game plan tho & it worked but if we had pressed them like we pressed the aforementioned gruesome twosome I think we would have beaten them. We had a spell where we pressed them we looked more like ourselves when we did but the final ball was always either over hit or under hit.

Okay perhaps you'd care to point out exactly where I said finishing in seventh was a failure or we were certainties for top sixth instead of making crap up?

You said there was no real damage done - I disagreed pointing out there was certainly damage done. Crowd size aside every position we drop costs us about £200k in prize money; that's about equivalent to 800 additional season ticket holders.In my opinion I feel we should be aiming for the best position we can get; not simply thinking tenth is good enough. Currently if we want to look to a top six place then its likely to be settled between any two of Killie; St Johnstone; Aberdeen and ourselves. The gruesome foursome have too comprehensive a squad to struggle when the bad weather and injuries hit.

Also whether we like it or not some offers are going to come in for some of our stars in the January window; we need to accumulate as many points as possible before we're faced with that situation. A possible twenty one points after the first eleven games cannot be viewed as anything other than a huge success by anyone other than the old firm.

With the Hamilton game in two days time that could be a very real possibility. They have three of their lead players suspended but can be notoriously hard to breakdown.

That being said eighteen point from eleven games is still top six form (or it has been in most other years without Dundee and St Mirren being so poor)

Let me turn the question on you.... where did I say that you said finishing 7th would be a failure? I didn’t did I? In fact I asked you if finishing 7th would be a failure because you said we are depressingly close to dropping to 7th. Nor did I say you said we are certainties for the top 6, in fact I used “almost-certainties” to indicate that both you & LF are heavily suggesting it is possible, almost (there is that word almost again) to the point of being likely.

As you know, I am less optimistic in my outlook, old grumpy git that I am. My main point being 7th is not a depressing position in the slightest, as far as I am concerned staying up would be a fantastic success. Whatever prize money the club gets at the end of the season is simply a bonus for a job well done.

Of course we should aim to get as high as we can but we will finish where we deserve to be over the season.

Bertie Bassett wrote:
Let me turn the question on you.... where did I say that you said finishing 7th would be a failure? I didn’t did I? In fact I asked you if finishing 7th would be a failure because you said we are depressingly close to dropping to 7th. Nor did I say you said we are certainties for the top 6, in fact I used “almost-certainties” to indicate that both you & LF are heavily suggesting it is possible, almost (there is that word almost again) to the point of being likely.

As you know, I am less optimistic in my outlook, old grumpy git that I am.  My main point being 7th is not a depressing position in the slightest, as far as I am concerned staying up would be a fantastic success. Whatever prize money the club gets at the end of the season is simply a bonus for a job well done.

Of course we should aim to get as high as we can but we will finish where we deserve to be over the season.

Firstly I apologise for the tone of my earlier response Bertie; sometime the aches and pains of getting older (not OLD you understand) make you less tolerant.

I think we have a real chance of finishing top six having seen the standard of those we're competing against. I also have a lot of confidence not only in the team and Gary but also some of the boys waiting in the wings who are at least good enough to make the step up.

At the start of the season I had some real doubts about whether we'd be here for more than a season; particularly with my lack of confidence in Miller and his ability but also remembering the pre-season friendlies we'd had against Motherwell; Hearts and Killie in the 2017/2018 season; many of the players in those games are still in the team today yet we really struggled against premier opposition.

Initially I thought it was a case of we are punching above our weight but gradually the realisation came across me that many of these guys are actually good enough and could effectively walk into pretty much any other mid table premiership side. Occasionally they will have of days or days when things simply wont gel but the fact that many of these guys have played together for two or more seasons; they understand each other; know when they're struggling and automatically help each other out.

If we can keep the side together then I truly believe a top six place is achievable; also the money involved not only by the increase prize fund but also the possibility of the last five games to packed-out stadia (one home game will likely be Celtic and another Hearts - worth about £20k a piece in gate receipts alone).

However we're getting ahead of ourselves; the initial aim must be to get as many points on the board as possible. With eight games in December it is possible that we will be confirmed safe by the end of the year

On the other side of the coin if hypothetically someone came in and offered £1 million for Halkett it would almost certainly impact the league position but would it be as much as five league places?

Actually looking at Dundee's performance its actually quite feasible that they will end up with not much better than 12 points by the end of the season - that would be great to get the all time low points monkey off our back which is an unwanted award we still carry I believe. St Mirren as well seem to have been getting worse since we played them; they will need to spend significantly in the transfer window if they're to survive.

I also remember when we sold Fernandez to Celtic for a million yet he hardly ever featured in their team; it seemed to be an accepted strategy of teams then to weaken the opposition by buying up their best players - something maybe we were also a bit guilty of when we bought Burns; Tosh and Andrews from Raith after they beat us 4-nil. But least-ways there will be plenty of teams looking to strengthen or weaken the opposition come January - whether what they're willing to offer would be enough is another matter.

Also don't be surprised if we receive outlandish offers from Falkirk would will be absolutely desperate come January for players to make a difference. Fortunately the boys they'll probably be looking at (midfielders) are all tied up on longish contracts.

Looking ahead to this weekend its really imperative we get three points bearing in mind we play the rangers at their hole, where the only question is how many soft penalties will Moralos win by diving, and Celtic at home where I want to be positive, particularly as they're still the one side we've never beaten, but the pessimist in me cant see us not conceding even with the strength of our defence and Kelly in goal who has really proved me wrong this season as well.

If you were to press me for what I'd consider failure to be now, at this point in the season rather than what I thought at the start, I'd say ninth would be a failure and that's primarily based on Dundee; St Mirren and Hamilton being complete and utter pants. Motherwell will grind out points and will get better; I still don't think they can improve enough to overtake us but do think they were a lot better than their own supporters seem to think.

No worries old bean, we are a couple of curmudgeons that would give Statler & Waldorf a run for their money!!

Each game as it comes has to be the motto - I think we are better than the current four bottom sides but we have only beaten Accies by a single goal (& pens in the cup) & have yet to beat Motherwell... I am not sure yet if we are as good as the other mid table sides.